The BritishV8 Pub

My MG has been insured with Allstate for over 20 years (liability, comprehensive, & uninsured motorists - no collision). It is listed as under 7500 miles per year. I haven't really mentioned the mods.

Then again, I don't have a magazine cover car to worry about insuring. ;)

Carl, if your insurance found out about the mods in a claim, they could deny benefits. Consider the results of liability coverage being denied in a serious accident where you caused serious injury to someone else. It's a big risk to take.

Here is the response from my Haggerty agent..I have a lot more questions after his response and may look elsewhere

Mike:

Examples #1-4 are fully covered events. However, using your cars for errands is more dicey, such as driving to the hardware store, grocery etc. What Hagerty is trying to prevent is for people using their collector cars as regular transportation or back-up transportation on a regular basis. Thus, if you drove to the grocery and somebody put a cart into the side of your car and you came back out to find it, it may be hard to explain if you were to make a claim as to what and where and why the event occurred. So, use your best judgment.

Best regards,





----- Original Message -----



Hi John, Mike Maloney here....I have been reflecting on my insurance coverage
It's been a while since I signed up and I think I need a reminder of what coverage I have, specifically on my red mgb gt V8 car

1. If I drive to a car show am I covered?
2. If I drive say 200 miles to car show am I covered?
2a. While at the show, if I drive someplace to get something to eat, am I covered?
2b. If I drive to my motel while at the show, am I covered?
3. If I take the car to a repair shop, is that covered?
4. If I decide on a given day to simply take my car out for a pleasure drive of say 30/40 miles, is it covered?
5. If I want to go to the grocery store in this car, am I covered?

Just thinking and trying to make sure I do not violate the rules.

kind regards
mike maloney

Quote:

So, use your best judgment.

And it'll be your best judgment against their team of lawyers.

What if instead of a cart banging into your car, you didn't notice the car in front of you and you seriously injured someone? Too dicey for me. Like I said, in a year or so I'll go back to regular insurance and take my chances. I can afford to lose my car (it'd hurt like hell, but I wouldn't lose my home or the ability to feed us), but a liability claim that is denied could destroy me financially.

In the meantime, I take every opportunity I can within the rules of the policy to enjoy my car, and sulk when I can't. In the two years since the car was finished, I've put over 6,000 miles on it, so it's not all that bad.

I'm with you Dan. That's what I was trying to say to Carl but you put it way better than me!

Looks like I will be checking into this further myself. The Haggerty Insurance Company is a1.5 hr drive from my house I may go there and ask, the next time I get home. I have been planning on bringing my B out here wher I am working but this will have to be cleared up first!!!

As it relates to item #5, that is no problem for me as I do not use it at all for that type of activity. In the past I have occasionally taken it for a pleasure drive, but basically I drive it to the V8 show and a few other British car shows. Other than the British V8 show, I do not put more than 600 miles a year on the car. I am really curious why my agent would say item #4 (the occasional pleasure drive) was ok to do if in fact it is questionable. So, I have left him a phone message asking for a sit down for him to show me in writing where it specifically states that the occasional pleasure drive is ok. Until then, I am only going to drive it to the shows. I agree with Dan and Rob that in these matters it is always better to error on the side of caution. One miscue could screw up a person financially for a lifetime.
Rob, I'm glad you started this thread on a subject that really needs to be discussed. Have you made a decision on any of the options that posted?

Mike, I think the reason the 30-40 mile drive is ok is because they allow occasional "hobby" use & consider a drive on a nice day to be consistent with that. It's also probably lower risk too because you are not likely to leave the car unattended for any length of time. A trip to the grocery store or to the office starts to look more like using the car as a daily driver or backup to your daily driver & typically will result in the car being left unattended which results in higher risk of it being stolen.

As for which one I'm going to go with, I haven't decided. Of the collectors plans, I like American Collectors because it seems a bit more flexible, has a higher mileage limit, & is pretty well known. But, I didn't get a reply to my mail (which was a reply to their mail to me with the quote) requesting a copy of the language associated with that part of the policy. I'll have to call them tomorrow to see if I can get it. If it's consistent with what the phone agent told me I'll be choosing between them & State Farm. I'd prefer State Farm, even with the lower valuation because of the total flexibility of use. But, I'm concerned that an accident estimated at $7k or even less would total the car (typically 50% or more of the value = totaled & high end value was about $15k when I looked it up). Other than potentially having to deal with a salvage title, I''m not sure what the downside of that would be. Most of the value is in the parts rather than the body shell [that's just where the time went] so if there are not significant negative repracussions to a salvage title, State Farm may still be the way to go. Anyone know the ins & outs of registering & insuring a car with a salvage title?

B's are still plentiful, so it should be no problem to find a donor car with a good title if that situation would present itself. A more rare car might be a problem, but my TR4A was "totalled" according to its value assigned by the insurance of the guy that hit me several years ago and they let me keep the car without changing the title for about $800. I got a parts car with no title and used the front clip from it to make the rebuild.

What about the occasional (maybe frequent) test drives? Are they covered?

Rob, if you should decide to go with State Farm, check on having an agreed on value.
I have both of my Classic cars insured with and agreed on value of 20K and each of them still have a cost (Full Coverage) of under $200.00 per year.

Merv

Merv, were you able to do agreed value thru State Farm? I called them today & the agent I spoke with didn't think that was an option. She's supposed to be calling their underwriting & claims groups for me on Monday & then get back to me with more info... if you have agreed value thru them & you don't mind, PM me your agent's contact info so I have have her connect with him/her to find out how.

I did connect with American Collectors & they are looking better...

Good morning Mr. Ficalora,

Attached is the current policy verbiage for the usage of the freedom tier. I hope this is
helpful in your decision. If you have a specific concern or usages in mind please note that
we do make exceptions on a case by case basis.

“Applicants who have collector cars but on occasion use
them outside of our normal parameters (e.g.; trips to work, shopping, run errands.)

I have to call back to ensure there isn't additional wording defining "occasional" that effectively limits it beyond the 6000 mile/yr limit. But, I also found out they are getting ready to announce a new program with even more flexibility and no mileage limits. I wouldn't count on that till it's real because I found a press announcement about it from a 18 months ago on their web site that indicated it is already available & according to the lady I talked with, it isn't yet (at least not in TX). But at least they seem to be headed in that direction.

Rob,

State Farm classic and collector car policy rider 6171BR, section 2 states:

"If loss is to your car, item 1.b.(1) is changed to read:

You and we agree that the actual value of your car is the vehicle value shown on the declarations page unless...."

The "unless" goea on to cover the case where the car has been neglected or abused or otherwise damaged before the event but after the value was agreed to.

This should help your agent find the info for you.

Dan.

excellent, thanks Dan.

Ok, I've had a few conversations with my local State Farm rep and with Merv's rep in IL. Without seeing the contract language I don't know for sure, but based on discussion with both State Farm reps, it seems pretty clear the State Farm agreed value policy is only available as an ammendment to their collector & antique car policy which carries the typical hobby use only type langauge -- thereby precluding regular or semi-regular use such as driving to work or on errands not related to the car or the hobby.

Given that, I'm going to go with the American Collectors policy. It seems to be the most flexible and the agent (at the company itself) indicated they are nearing announcement of an enhanced program that would have no usage restrictions* so looks like it'll even get better over time.

*Note, I'm still assuming "no usage restrictions" will exclude track type use.

re: *Note, I'm still assuming "no usage restrictions" will exclude track type use.

That is a pretty valid assumption, Rob.

The October issue of Street Rodder magazine has the first of a two-part article on collector car insurance. Not all that informative, but worth a browse-thru at the magazine rack.

I use Condon& Scully and they have been great to deal with. I started the car in gear and it went out of the garage and hit another garage and they covered all the damages. Now the paint and body shop did'nt live up to there end of the deal and shafted me on finishing the car.

Jerry,

That's a real bummer, but glad to hear the insurance came through OK. That's good to remember when I go to renew my insurance.

Makes me feel a bit less paranoid, though. I wired my starter through the neutral safety switch so It won't start unless it's in neutral.

I've had extensive experience in this area.

It has always been my understanding that most policies allow for 'other occasional use' for collector cars.

I have usually preferred to go with J.C. Taylor. But right now I have a problem with them - they want me to REMOVE THE ROLL BAR in my V-8 Midget before they will cover it! Yet at a recent meet, one of their executives suggested that I simply remove the bolted in roll bar, then take some pics of the car to send to them, and then reinstall it! Huh?

I've had problems with Condon-Skelly in the past and, although the problem was caused more by the agent than by them, I wouldn't ever use them again.

Anyway, J.C. Taylor beats them all in rates.

One other experience to pass on - about thirty years ago, one of my collector cars (a '53 Pontiac Hearse that was covered by J.C. Taylor) was totalled by a drunk driver in a Ford Van at around midnight in a head-on collision, a hit and run accident that happened perhaps three miles from my house. I told them that I had been working on the car and was taking it for a test drive through the neighborhood which was bs - I was on my way home from seeing a movie with some friends.

I got an estimate of damage and J.C. Taylor cut me a check for this amount, but before they could send it out, the cops caught the bastage and his insurance paid for the damage. So I called my Taylor agent and declined the check but thanked them for their service. This experience left a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings for dealing with this company...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2010 01:57PM by highmileage.

B.D., I hear you & I think folks can get away with a lot. But, I'm more interested in what the letter of the contract says. Consider if the hit & run was more than a few miles -- maybe in the parking lot while you were at the movie -- and the impact from your car injured someone -- long shot maybe, but the liability cases from long shots are what cause people to lose their homes, retirement accounts, etc.