The BritishV8 Pub

Not really sure which category this belongs in but I recently I responded to a member's post regarding on the MGE site the cancellation of his insurance policy with Haggerty following an accident repair. His post made me think about the $25,000 or so I have sunk into my little "investment" out in the garage that's not going to be on the road until this spring. So I called my insurance agent, explained the circumstance and was sobered to learn that my B was covered in it's non-registered, no-running state for $1,000 - my per occurrence limit on personal property located in a building attached to my premises (garage for all of us normal folk). If something happened and the garage was leveled, after I paid my deductible, I would be handed a check for $500, essentially flushing 4 years and $25,000 worth work down the drain. Can you say, "Hello!?"

Following are some things I discovered today that may be of use to others who are building and in a similar state. I'm not proud to admit that I really feel like an idiot about this, but I really should have known better. Here's some preliminary research.

• Talked with my agent and asked him to research protection. Can be insured under my existing policy through Safeco (classic-restricted category) for $47.60 for the next 6 months to the value of $20,000. Slightly more if I want push for full replacement. My garage tools and equipment will be covered under home owners if I give him a list for either par value or replacement value, whichever I prefer (premium will go up accordingly). BTW, I found out that Nationwide has a similar program and would suspect that most of the majors do as well.
• Called Grundy asking the same question, providing the same information and here's what I just received - "Thank you for contacting Grundy Insurance. We do have a program to insure your 79 MGB. In order to qualify you would need to insure your daily driver vehicle(s). It is a 3 car minimum, 1 car would have to be a collector and 1 a daily driver. We can provide full coverage on the 79 MG except when it is on the race track. " essentially they want to hold me to get the other two cars. I won't embarrass them by quoting their cost, but it was ridiculous.
• Called Haggerty, the gist of which was, they were not interested. To be completely fair, they didn't say "no" but the restrictions and conditions were such that I felt like they were intentionally trying to discourage me. They were, however, interested when the car was running.

I have a few more irons out there so I can be better versed in all of this, but tomorrow morning, my agent is getting the VIN number for the B, my build sheet, copies of all my receipts (used to verify replacement cost) and a check for the first 6 months premium. We'll work out any differences after I'm covered. I'll add, that my service was greatly expedited because I have been good about documenting what I've done in both words and pictures (http://www.tempusfugitgarage.com) and that it helped immensely in getting a rational rate as well as the speed of the answer to my original question.

I had no problem insuring my project V8 with Grundy.

I also have two MGCs insured through Grundy.

I do NOT have my "daily drivers" (Ford F-150, Nissan 300ZX, GMC Envoy, 1972 MGB, 1978 MGB) insured through them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2012 06:27PM by mowog1.

Rick,

I suspect that "your mileage may differ" if you are already insured with them. At least, that's what I'm taking away from today's adventure. Both Grundy and Haggerty were happy to insure my project if would bundle my drivers. Not so much if I just wanted to insure my project. Can't blame them for trying and or condemning the practice but I am saying that it makes sense to find out what your coverage is (or isn't) and to look into making sure you're not assuming something that just isn't so (like I did).

David



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2012 09:49PM by DC Townsend.

No...I had never insured with Grundy prior to listing the MGCs and the V8 with them in April 2011.

I had always been with State Farm.....and the daily drivers listed above are still with State Farm....I removed the Cs and the V8 from SF and insured them through Grundy.

Reading the replies to this same thread over on MGE, people's experiences and coverages seem to be all over the place.

That said, the intent of posting this wasn't and isn't to condemn (or condone) any particular company, it's more to let others know not to assume because their non-running, non-registered car (key phrases) is safely tucked away in their attached garage that it's covered by insurance. Maybe it makes me out a fool for having said so but I'm willing to bet that there are others reading this that made the same assumption I did and, frankly, if it means someone can recover their project if something unexpected happens to it, I can live with that.

The information on which companies I contacted was purely that, informational. But my direct experience was my current insurer's cost for the next 6 months beat the pants off the specialty providers (not at all what i expected). That may all change when the B is on the road. We'll have to stay tuned until spring to find that out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 10:54AM by DC Townsend.

My GT has been registered and plated it Texas for as long as I can remember, currently with antique plates which I like because I don’t have to get it inspected and no front plate, and insured with Haggerty. My daily driver and my Harley are not with Hagerty and they’ve never asked, but to be honest I never offered. It is currently setting in my driveway for the world to see and appears to be drivable but it’s by no means road worthy, however if it could, it would be legal to do so. So do I need to be concerned or are we only talking about cars that are not plated?



Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 09:21AM by pspeaks.

I have several currently not licensed cars. The cars are not covered on my homowners. I did work with State Farm and for less than $50 (Ea) I have 2 cars on insurance as non driving cars.

However, they were not really able to cover cars or parts dissasembled.

Paul,

The gist of this thread was to advise folks who had project cars (in their garage or in their driveway) that if they assumed it would be covered by their homeowner's or comprehensive policies to check with their insurer and make sure.

In my case, I found that my non-running car was not covered anywhere near what it is worth because my homeowner's policy is very specific about what is covered (and to what degree) in an "attached structure" - my garage. Things like my tools and shop equipment, because they are for my personal use, were covered for replacement value. Anything sitting in the garage NOT covered as personal property or with an automotive policy was good to a maximum of $1000, meaning, after my deductible, I would have received a check for $500 for my B project. Frankly, I've built two other cars in the very same garage and never gave it a thought.

I also discovered that the laws vary from state-to-state as to what constitutes an insurable vehicle. Apparently there a states in which a non-registered or non-running car, meaning something not on the road, is not actually considered an automobile but personal property. That changes what kind of insurance you might want to consider.

I thought I would just go to one of the specialty insurers, figuring that they must deal with this kind of thing all of the time and have rate that was structured appropriately. What I found was something quite the opposite.

Bottom line, I think it's worth a call to your agent (if you use one), tell him the circumstance and ask what is covered and for how much. It would be a hell of surprise to find out that the Harley was gone and you didn't receive fair value because of some policy provision or local law that you weren't aware of.

I, too, have one MGB insured with Comprehensive Only on my State Farm policy.

I also do this routinely each winter with my 300ZX and my 1972 MGB.

As I stated before, State Farm would NOT insure my V8 when it was disassembled, because I had started disassembly PRIOR to notifying them that I wanted to insure it.

This was NOT the case with Grundy (my current insurer) or with Hagerty/J.C.Taylor when I inquired.

Thanks guys, I get it now. Sometimes I'm a little dense, but I allways claim its because I'm getting old.


Paul

But if you already had insurance through Hagerty or Grundy or JC Taylor or State Farm or whomever, would not the car be covered during the conversion process as long as you continue to pay the premiums?

Dan B

"But if you already had insurance through Hagerty or Grundy or JC Taylor or State Farm or whomever, would not the car be covered during the conversion process as long as you continue to pay the premiums?"

At the risk of this thread devolving into something I didn't intend, the simple answer is either "yes", "no", or "maybe" depending, it appears, on how your insurer and/or your state defines an "automobile" and the specifics of your current coverage on either your home, your car or even both. Confused yet? I was.

Hypothetically (the key word here) you could have a running car, pull it into your garage for the purpose of restoring or modifying it. To do the work, you would obviously being doing some dismantling or perhaps removing the engine or transmission or all of these, during which time the vehicle is inoperable (not road worthy). You might also let the registration lapse because it's going to be a long term project and you didn't want to spend the money. At this point, there are any number of possible issues depending on:

1) the specifics of your insurance coverage
2) how your locality or your insurer (or both) define "automobile"
3) how your insurer covers the space where you project to sits

and a few other details that you should check with your insurance company about.

Depending on the above you could find that your project is no longer considered a car because it is not legally on the road and, therefore, has become your personal property and is no longer covered under your auto policy (l wrongfully assumed that because the B was car it was automatically covered under my automobile coverage). If that's the case, you additionally may find (as I did) that the specifics of the pay out limits on your personal property depend on where that property is located - in your house or in your garage, which I found was considered an out building as it sits on a separate poured platform (even though it is attached). This may seem like nuance but it is most definitely not.

In my case, because my project car was not (and had not) been running, wasn't registered (and hadn't been) so was considered my personal property (not my auto coverage as I had assumed) and, therefor, subject to the terms and limitations of my personal property insurance spelled out in my homeowner's coverage. Further, my policy specified a difference between property in the house and property in my "out building" or attached garage and had a claim limitation that was far below the value of the project car.

This all had a happy ending with the insurance company and myself coming to an agreed value for the car. The premium to cover the B up to $20,000 was $46.70 for the next 6 months. While I was at it, I also confirmed the coverage on my tools and shop equipment (in writing) figuring if I was thick enough to not realize how exposed I was on the car, who knows what else lurks out there.

To me, the bottom line is, take a few minutes to confirm that your project is covered, for how much, and what the terms and conditions of the coverage are. You might be as surprised as I was. Or, I could be the only guy on the planet who was completely oblivious to my risk.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2012 11:37AM by DC Townsend.

Dave,
Give these people a try. [www.anpac.com] they may cover "under construction".
I have their Chrome policy for my Spitfire. They allow 10,000 miles annually and insure for $25,000 without an appraisal. Their premiums for full coverage agreed value are less than what I was paying for just liability.

Phil,

That's a great source! Might be useful if we could collect a list of possible options and make it easier for folks to locate an insurer that suits there needs,

David

ANPAC/Chrome is what I have too. Pretty sure coverage before the car was running was an option.