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peterglenk
Peter Glenk
California
(7 posts)

Registered:
12/22/2007 02:02PM

Main British Car:
1966 And 1967 Sunbeam Alpines H.O. 302 5Spd. And 347 Sroker 6Spd.

Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: peterglenk
Date: January 03, 2008 07:09PM

What Are people installing into there Sunbeams? EFI 302, 289, 351,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2009 11:03PM by Moderator.


Maxwell Smart
David Petrikas
Sydney Australia
(1 posts)

Registered:
02/07/2008 06:53AM

Main British Car:
1965 Tiger replica 302 Windsor with Holley 600

Re: Engine of Choice 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: Maxwell Smart
Date: February 07, 2008 07:23AM

Hi as you probably know by now the Tiger was axed by Chrysler because they couldn't fit their Hemi engines into the space originally designed for a four cylinder engine. The Ford Windsors with their narrow 60 degrees(?) V fit between the original Chassis rails where a Cleveland won't. If you want to go for big block you have to engineer your own chassis rails which is a big job and detracts from the original character and possibly the structural integrity of the car.
Sunbeam V8 SYDNEY AUST.JPG


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Engine of Choice 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: February 07, 2008 04:05PM

I'm pretty sure the Windsor SBF is 90 but the 302 engines have a really short deck making them nice and thin.


old hp 260
Mark Pebler
MI.
(55 posts)

Registered:
01/24/2009 10:11PM

Main British Car:
66 MK1a Tiger, my first tiger!! Ford 260 c.i.

Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: old hp 260
Date: January 27, 2009 11:42PM

is there a 427 small block ford? i know chevy has them


fasttiger
Jerry Porsch
Las Cruces, New Mexico
(78 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 08:40AM

Main British Car:
1966 Sunbeam Ford 380 ci with twin turbo's

Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: fasttiger
Date: February 05, 2009 06:22PM

Yes they make a 427 thru World Products but its based on a 351 block


old hp 260
Mark Pebler
MI.
(55 posts)

Registered:
01/24/2009 10:11PM

Main British Car:
66 MK1a Tiger, my first tiger!! Ford 260 c.i.

Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: old hp 260
Date: February 07, 2009 04:06PM

lot of cubes for a small car!!!


skyeking
noel foreshew

(3 posts)

Registered:
02/26/2009 01:22PM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: skyeking
Date: February 28, 2009 11:08PM

Hi Dave,
That car looks like a Real Cruiser and is meant to drive and also to keep for few years.
Check with RTA about Fuel systems etc and Forget about big blocks.[IMHO.]
Suggestion..With a 347 Street fighter motor worth about 310 BHP and 300+ torque all
you need is CONTROL, Braking and Stopping power with good handling makes for a nice
cruiser..I would use a Strong auto like a C10 or C4 with a good kit in it.
I like to drive my car and not the car to drive me..
If you Really like to change gears then drive a road train..[Sydney to Darwin?]
All the best with your projects...Noel.....



old hp 260
Mark Pebler
MI.
(55 posts)

Registered:
01/24/2009 10:11PM

Main British Car:
66 MK1a Tiger, my first tiger!! Ford 260 c.i.

Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: old hp 260
Date: April 18, 2009 12:13AM

i did some checking and you can get up to a 454 ci small block ford, www.fordstrokers.com check out this website they do some really good work at affordable prices.


SpreadSheet
Marvin Kluttz

(1 posts)

Registered:
04/22/2009 10:41AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: SpreadSheet
Date: April 22, 2009 11:31AM

The making of a "Tiger" from an Alpine was quite popular in the early '70s. I recall that one of the models had rack and pinion steering and the other had worm gear steering (because the standard Alpine steering interfered with the Ford engine at the placement used by Sunbeam for the Tiger.

The 221, 260, 289 and 302 Ford engines all had the same Bore centers (4.38") the same deck height (8.206") and the same head bolt pattern. The pivot point for manual clutch linkage disappeared from production about 1970. If I were to do this swap, I would use a 302 from the post 1988 period as this has a roller camshaft. The motor oils of the post 2005 period really require roller cams for decent engine life. The unit found in Ford Explorers in the late '90s would be fine, although the Mustang camshaft from 1994-1995 would give higher rpm range and more horsepower (but less economy). Unfortunately neither the Mustang nor the Explorer was ever available with a decent transmission. I would suggest a Mustang Bellhousing or scatter shield (if you lean toward competition)adapted to a 5 or six speed transmission.

The weight of all these engines is 220-475 lbs, depending on whether it has a cast iron or aluminum intake manifold.

For the transmission you need to find 5 or 6 speed with direct drive in high gear (the power loss in overdrive ruins fuel mileage and cuts top speed significantly.

The first transmission that I would check out is the BMW 524TDS unit with 5.05 first gear. the big question is "Can it take the torque?." If you're more performance oriented the "C" series Getrag from post 1991 BMW's has a 4.24 low gear with direct high.

I recall that 2.88 was a popular gear with the Tigers of that era, and that's about the right range if you have the 94-95 Mustang cam. With the milder Explorer/Mountaineer cam I would suggest something in the 2.29-2.45 range depending on your tire size.

Fuel injection? If you use the factory setup, you'll be stuck with catalytic converters and up to 4 oxygen sensors, or a total reprogramming job to eleminate the requirement from those components. I would suggest an aluminum manifold and a 4 barrel carburetor (400 450 CFM).The oxygen sensor technology makes possible much better fuel air meters than were available in the '60 and should make jetting very easy (good place to use an in chassis dyno to get the jetting right).

The last part is icing on the cake, but I'll mention it. The Alpines and Tigers had small wheels and thus small brakes. Brake pad change would come very frequently with the stock brakes. I would definitely upgrade the front discs to the largest that I could get, and that involves a step upward in terms of wheel diameter. I like to run tires in the 60 series, as I find that 50 series and smaller are susceptible to chuck hole damage (the roads in Houston are very primitive). If the car is still moble, I would see the local used tire man, and experiment with old tires to see how big I could cram in without rubbing. Be sure to get the pressure right and take some turns at maximum cornering power to check for rub. With my Fiero, I determined that a 35 psi tire will distort about .25" during a hard turn (35 psi tire pressure). I found that with this clearance and pressure it rubbed all the dirt off the nearby coil spring, with no damage to the tire. But check the clearance and see how much you can upgrade your wheel diameter. The get a vented disc that will just fit in there. You bolt pattern might change. If it does, let it (but do this before you upgrade the rear end to take the extra torque.)Incidentally the Jaguar IRS will take the torque and has 4.75" 5 bolt pattern.

If all goes as I think it will you will have a delightful cruiuser that will hit 140-155 depending on the cam, and will cruise effortless at 80 with 20 + mpg.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Colorado USA
(3576 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: Moderator
Date: April 22, 2009 12:00PM

Some real good information there, Marvin. Thank you and welcome to the forum!

I have a hard time with one or two things though. You wrote:
Quote:
For the transmission you need to find 5 or 6 speed with direct drive in high gear (the power loss in overdrive ruins fuel mileage and cuts top speed significantly.

Take a quick look at this Table of Gear Ratios for the T5 Transmission, you'll notice that all of them provide direct drive (1:1 gear ratio) in fourth gear. In other words, if you really want to cruise at 1:1, you certainly can even with the stock Mustang/Explorer five speeds.

However, the overdrive gear (for fifth) is there to slow the engine rpms down at cruise for better fuel economy... with the same net effect as changing rear axle ratio. The most readily available 6-speed would probably be the T56, and it's got direct drive on fourth gear too - it's just got two different overdrives. Why? Mostly for fuel economy, I think.

Here's another article on the subject: Which 5 or 6 Speed Transmission for your Ford Conversion?


BLISTIC
Pete Blakeley

(6 posts)

Registered:
03/31/2009 11:52AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: BLISTIC
Date: May 28, 2009 11:39AM

Currently tearing down a 86 5.0 roller cam motor.
A lot of these engines were beat and a lot were well taken care of. Mine had 200k on the odo, this thing still has cross hatches in the cylinder walls. The inside looks very clean.
It will be bored .030 with forged pistons. A rod/piston upgrade will be in order.
Parts for the lower end. hardened rod/main bolts and floating piston pins. Forged pistons. cam will be a X303 and aluminum heads.
Should be hitting in the ball park of 375Hp at the back tires. Which is plenty enough. My use for this car is for the track and the street. Usable horsepower in the 3500 to 7k rpm range.
I built a similar engine and installed it in a 65 mustang of mine. Also two others 67 vert and fastback....The engies produced plenty of HP and TQ for those envelopes. So the Sunbeam package will be plenty.

AFA som one commented on using the Fuel injection etc.
FMS has O2 Sensor deleat jumpers. One can run the primary O2 sensor with out the cats.


67 Tiger
Frank Mandell

(4 posts)

Registered:
06/05/2009 08:16AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: 67 Tiger
Date: June 05, 2009 09:16AM

Well I have been out of the Tiger world for a long time, BUT Ill tell you about my Tiger. I have a 67, Ive owned this car since the mid 70's. It has the stock block with the guts from a 68 302 4v, the cam is crane's hyd. version of the boss cam, about 290 dur. and 500 lift. I have an awfulhouser intake , holley 600, and ford dual point ( I told you the motor was built in the 70s). I also swaped the close ratio toploder for a wide ratio one. The rear has the stock 288s, but my car came from the factory with the limited slip option. All that being said, MY CAR HAULED ASS. It was SCARY fast. I raced a lot of camaros, firebirds and mustangs back then, even one 383 road runner. once I tried to get a guy in a turbo porche to race. I could keep up with or pass everyone that I raced. Im sure that motor combo was only about 325hp and maybe 350lbs, but a Tigers driveshaft is only about 2 foot long, all that power goes right to the ground. Also Tigers are only an 86" wheelebase( if I remember right). I spun out my car many, many times. I took my car to a number of CAT events, back then and most aggreed it was a very FAST Tiger. Of course this was long before the 5.0, and LS motors were more than 20 years away. Now, my car has been on jacks for about 15 years, so after I fix the frame Ill let you know if a mild 302 is still SCARY FAST.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Cypress, TX
(1916 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: rficalora
Date: June 05, 2009 11:05AM

what does a Tiger weigh & how's the weight distributed?


67 Tiger
Frank Mandell

(4 posts)

Registered:
06/05/2009 08:16AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: 67 Tiger
Date: June 05, 2009 06:49PM

Kerb Weight (thats how its spelled in the Sunbeam 260 owners Handbook) is 2565lbs. for std. and 2625lbs. for G.T. Weight distribution is almost neutrol. When Shelby did the swap he moved the spare tire and battery to helpe with balance. He also fabbed a new firewall and moved the motor back in the engine bay.


squeezeweezil
Jessie Herrera

(5 posts)

Registered:
10/21/2009 05:09AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: squeezeweezil
Date: October 21, 2009 05:55AM

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this website so please forgive me if I screw up the site's ettiquet. I have a 67 Alpine that I'm doing the conversion to the 302. I bought it with a Chevy V6 and it's a running car. I see some incredible cars on your posts. Has anyone here experimented with a big block chrysler? I have about half a dozen or so sitting in my garage. The 410 Alpine is incredible, but I'm sure that it was not easy to do. How did they get it to fit? A 302 swap seems to be hard enough. I welcome any tips that you may have on the 302 swap and the 440 swap. Thank you.
Jessie Herrera



squeezeweezil
Jessie Herrera

(5 posts)

Registered:
10/21/2009 05:09AM

Main British Car:


Re: Sunbeam engine swap: 260? Maybe 347? Larger, 427 Small Block?
Posted by: squeezeweezil
Date: December 12, 2009 08:36PM

Hello,
I'm doing a small block Ford swap into my 67 Alpine. I've done some pretty intense research to where I think I can do a fairly sanitary swap with no real or unsurmountable complications. The difference I'm doing is with a mustang 2 driveline and a MG rack and pinion although I'm going to examine the Mustang 2 rack and pinion swap. I'm making a video of each major step as well as a template for the firewall. I'm going to try to cover it all and put it into layman's terms. If you can help me in any way with information and pictures I would really appreciate it. Credit will be served. I've gathered lots of information, but you can never get enough. Once complete, it will be available for just the costs of the tape and template. I will cover sources and part descriptions and part numbers. I haven't been able to find any how-to manuals anywhere so I'm hoping that this will help other builders. Thank you.
Jessie Herrera
619-668-0735
P.O. Box 1976
Spring Valley
Ca. 91979-1976


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