Rootes Group Cars

a place for Sunbeam, Hillman, Humber, Singer, and Talbot performance enthusiasts

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billymgb1000
bill gaulin
harrisville R.I.
(73 posts)

Registered:
11/30/2012 12:31AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB V8 LS1 5.3

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: billymgb1000
Date: November 09, 2018 09:03PM

Welcome back Charlie, People who get all mad about other people stating what they have done or had in their life. Are just jealous, And 99% of the time have many other issues. To me you are a lucky guy, Anyways when you figure out the pic thing I would love to see some pics of your car and ones you have built. Good luck with the sunbeam.
Bill G


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5968 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 10, 2018 10:26AM

Yes, that 600kb limit is usually the problem. If you have microsoft office there is a program in there that lets you resize photos, I don't remember what it is. But you should be able to find it.

Anyway congratulations on your successes. It's seldom easy for anyone and you have to be thankful for what has worked in your life. We hold up to acclaim those who succeed greatly but the reality is that the stars must align for those stories to exist. For the vast majority there are steps missing on the ladder to success and usually too many to bridge. So rather that judge oneself by others' achievements it's more profitable to consider the hurdles actually overcome. Everyone has them, how they are dealt with is the true measure of success, and nobody else is in any position to measure it. Gratitude for the generosity of others is seldom misplaced, nor is generosity in one's self. So there's my comment on that, I hope it doesn't offend.

Jim


Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: November 13, 2018 12:11PM

Jim, you wouldn't happen to know my old English teacher, Mr. Lloyd would you? I write for a newspaper and try to keep my prepositions away from the end of a sentence, all due to that man. Your sentence structure and flow of wording reminds me of him. Anyway, I appreciate the good words on this site and the other one was good also...I just stepped on some toes when it appeared I was bragging. Forgive me if sometimes I repeat myself, as I had a stroke a few years ago and forget if I told something on a particular site. Working with sportscar sites, engineering sites, writing an on-line answer board for 6 cylinder Mustangs, writing a newspaper column, setting up my personal gunsmith shop, and building my Sunbeam...I forget which group knows my background. THANKS for the help with the pictures. I'll try later to post some if I figure out how. My friend Paul Speaks has been on here for years and he turned me on to you guys. A nice guy and long-time friend.


Dan B
Dan Blackwood
South Charleston, WV
(973 posts)

Registered:
11/06/2007 01:55PM

Main British Car:
1966 TR4A, 1980 TR7 Multiport EFI MegaSquirt on the TR4A. Lexus V8 pl

authors avatar
Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Dan B
Date: November 13, 2018 12:22PM

A good shortcut for resizing pics is to email the pic to yourself. When you attach, the email program asks what size. Pick the one under 600.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5968 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 13, 2018 03:05PM

Heck of a good tip Dan, thanks. I'd never have thought of that one.

Charlie, your buddy Paul is admired and respected on this site. If you approach his standards I can't see you having any problems here. And we are eager to see what you're doing there.

Jim


Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Bragging
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: November 15, 2018 05:25PM

Jim, at the risk of bragging, I have been building cars for over 50 years. My 289 powered 32 Ford coupe won its class at the Dallas ISCA show and was featured on the cover of Performance CARS magazine and centerfold story in 1976. Yes, I am old. Dean Spruell the photographer, was shocked I did all work except upholstery. It was also a color article in Street Rodder magazine. I had exceptional teachers who have won national acclaim and international awards. The guy who taught me body/paint did work for the Gas Monkey TV show and Richard Rawlings. His name is Raymond Chovanetz and I have known him since the late 50's. My friend Jimmy K Smith is now in Oklahoma owning the Hot Rod Shop in Sand Springs, where they built a famous Chevy pickup, and his personal 34 tudor was featured in Street Rodder magazine. My present 65 Mustang has won several show awards, not because it is exceptional but it is a "different" six cylinder. Back in the late 80's a millionaire built me a fully equipped 4-bay shop in my backyard so I could build just for him. I did for several years. His 1940 Nash 2 door, chopped 3", no chrome, custom frenched lights, super interior, big inch Ford V8, auto, Air, Cruise, tilt, and more, won 1st in class, best interior and 2nd Peoples Choice at the Ft. Worth show. Now I work on my own 1967 Sunbeam Alpine, and hope I can still do good work. Time will tell...and Paul is a long-time friend also. He once left his T-Bucket at my farm while he went back to Dallas. I drove that fun car for a couple of weeks and it reminded me why I never built one. After a few miles with the Chevy exhaust dumping right next to the driver, you can't hear anything below a grenade detonation. OKAY, that is not intended as bragging, but I understand how it could seem that way. I come from the Dallas housing projects and could not afford to buy a Hot Rod. Thank God I had experts to teach me how to build one.


Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: November 16, 2018 03:00PM

518_100_0474.jpg For some reason this Ferrari shot of a car my friend built attached.



Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: November 17, 2018 06:55PM

Okay Jim, now that everyone knows how wonderful I am I will stop repeating myself. I still can't get pictures to post...except the Ferrari my friend Raymond built. I know I mentioned I could not get pictures to post...so I guess I am still repeating myself. Sorry guys, this seems like one of those dreams that keeps repeating. My 9 year old grandson probably knows how to solve my problem, so I'll ask him Monday.


Tiger2Dan
Dan Richardson
Greenwood, SC 29649
(8 posts)

Registered:
02/04/2018 12:16PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Series V ST Colour Code 106 FORD (Cologne) 2.8 V6

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Tiger2Dan
Date: March 21, 2020 12:40AM

The 2.8 V6 FORD is a perfect conversion for the Sunbeam Alpine. Saw lots of the Tigers in my early years when they first hit the USA Highways.

Became very familiar with the First Series I while stationed in Bermuda 1959-61. Fell in love with them.

Own 6 at present. Started my first V6 conversion back in 2007. Bought a jose kit following the crowd, soon learned I wanted to change out some of the design being utilized. First off was the way the headers stuck out the side of the Alpine and ran along the bottom of the quarter panel. Prefect for DragRacing, but not ideal for street! Took me three years to design and find a fabricator to build "Straightbacks" similar to the TIGER Exhaust system.....After completion of that project, I decided to build components to make the conversion a bit "better"... I offer to the Alpine Community an option to purchase any number of items to make their conversion an easy and positively enjoyable way to modernize their Alpine.

Even offer an Electrical Power Steering (EPS) for those wanting the best in driving experiences:)

Rear Disc Brakes for the Sunbeam now! Have them installed on my Blue Boy V6. Testing the modified E-Brake cable as the final step.

Tiger@Dan at Gmail.com ask for PIC's if interested

Keep'em-on-the-Road
2.8 V6 Straight Back Headers by DanR 20180301_142550.jpg
2.8 V6 Straight Back Headers by DanR 20180301_145545.jpg
2.8 V6 Straightback Headers by DanR     20191110_140230.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2020 06:47PM by Tiger2Dan.


Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: October 12, 2020 04:13PM

I just removed the Alpine rear axle and checked the ratio. It is supposed to be 3.89-1 but I got 2.2-1. I marked the 3rd member input and the drum on one side, then rotated the drum one turn. The input moved 2.2 turns. Did Alpine make a 2.2 to 1 axle? With an A4LD overdrive and lockup converter, plus 14" tires, I'll be doing 150 mph at 3,000 rpm! Just a guess but probably close. Do the Brits figure ratios different? Has math changed since I checked an axle 20 years ago? HELP!


Spitfire 350
Phil McConnell
Perrysburg, OH (Toledo area)
(201 posts)

Registered:
01/11/2010 09:19PM

Main British Car:
74 Spitfire 350Chevy

authors avatar
Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Spitfire 350
Date: October 12, 2020 06:51PM

Did both brake drums turn? I seem to recall that both axles must turn together to keep the spider gears from skewing the outcome.


88v8
Ivor Duarte
Gloucestershire UK
(806 posts)

Registered:
02/11/2010 04:29AM

Main British Car:
1974 Land Rover Lightweight V8

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: 88v8
Date: October 13, 2020 04:16AM

If it's a stock diff, ie not an lsd, while one wheel rotates forwards, the other wheel will rotate backwards.
If it's an lsd, both wheels will turn forwards.

You have a 4.22.

Other ratios available, 3.70 or 3.89.
If you ever have the chance to make the engine swap, it would pull a 3.70 quite happily.

Ivor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2020 04:19AM by 88v8.


Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: October 13, 2020 02:26PM

Ivor, please explain how 2.2 turns of the input driveshaft (propeller) with one full turn of the wheel drum equals 4.22 ratio. Obviously I am missing something in the math mechanics. My owners manual says I have a 3.89 axle with the factory 1725 engine and 4-speed standard transmission. That was what I used to determine my 14" wheel/tire size and automatic overdrive combination. In Texas 75 MPH is our highway speed, and this combo puts the engine I built, a Ford 2.3 Mustang 4-cylinder, right in the sweet-spot for torque to give maximum economy on trips. Now with a 2.20 axle, I'll be doing 131 MPH at 3,000 RPM but under 1800 at 75. I MUST be missing something because I don't find anything near a 2.20 axle for the Sunbeam Alpine. Turning the input or the drum gives me the same 2.20 number. I have found stamped numbers on the housing but they do not give me any indication as to the axle ratio. My only problem with this axle is my getting rear-ended while entering freeway traffic. My acceleration time from zero to 60 mph could be measured with a calendar.
I tried to attach pix but would not work. IMG_ file.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2020 02:30PM by Charlie Cheap.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2061 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: mgb260
Date: October 13, 2020 05:16PM

Charly, Ivor is correct on available ratios. If your car originally had a overdrive transmission it should be 4.22. If standard 4 speed it should be 3.89. The 3.70 was used in other Sunbeam and Hillman models. This may help you figure it out:


[shiftsst.com]


88v8
Ivor Duarte
Gloucestershire UK
(806 posts)

Registered:
02/11/2010 04:29AM

Main British Car:
1974 Land Rover Lightweight V8

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: 88v8
Date: October 15, 2020 05:17AM

Charlie, when you rotate one wheel, with a non-lsd half the motion is lost in the spiders. Your actual rotation will be 2.11 which is hard to measure.

Acceleration measured with a calendar hoho yes indeed.
I recall when I first had my TR6 with its huge tyres and 3.45 diff the acceleration was glacial, I went to a 3.7 then a 4.11. Choice of rear end transforms the car.

Ivor



Charlie Cheap
Charles Johns
Texas
(24 posts)

Registered:
03/12/2014 07:21PM

Main British Car:
1967 Sunbeam Alpine Ford 2.3 Lima (85 Mustang)

Re: 1967 Sunbeam Alpine engine change
Posted by: Charlie Cheap
Date: October 24, 2020 09:05AM

Ivor, way back many years ago a friend had an early Rolls Royce with righthand steering. I never got use to riding what we call in the US "Shotgun" in the wrong seat. Thankfully both my Alpines were US delivery factory made lefthand drive. If I can figure out how, I will post build pictures.
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