MG Sports Cars

Hello Nice forum, picture, and information site, I just purchased an 77 MGB and would like to make a conversion.
Couple of basic question,
1- price for a swap? like a buick seems to be the preferred choice.
2- is there a V8 swap that do not require no body alteration IE cutting to make the engine fit?
3- not looking for a super perfomance engine, Just want to have a reliable one.
4- Also was wondering how hard it would be to put an Honda Vtech engine under the hood and what kind of alteration would be required.

I know these are basic questions and read quite a bit on it, but people never tell the price tag on things. I guess money is no object, but for me it is!!!
Thanks
Rob

Rob, for most in this group, money is indeed a concern. Otherwise they'd be playing with a different car and paying someone else to build it for them. Jay Leno comes to mind.

Lots of people like the Rover engine. It's a good choice with lots of options. Some like Ford, some like Buick, some like V6's. All have their advantages and disadvantages, and all can be done at a reasonable cost and without much in the way of body mods. The Rover is a bolt-in with your car, as is the Buick, but the Ford is not. Both of the V6's are. (Buick and GM 60*) Weights of all these choices are within the capabilities of the stock suspension with few concerns. My advice is to clearly define what you want the car to be like when it is done. Everything from power level to exhaust note. For instance, the 60* V6 is becoming a popular swap because it is easy and adds good power but many prefer the V8 burble. The 300 Buick nestles down in the engine bay almost identically to the Rover but has the durability of an iron block. And so on. Take plenty of time to think about it and do a lot of reading on this site. Make a careful decision. The cheapest swap is one that is only done once.

Jim

So many questions in one post!

I think Honda VTEC engines are fantastic, and I'd be delighted to see more of them on this website. Comparing a V8 to a VTEC is a little like comparing the Appalachian mountains to the Rockies. (Personally, I think the Appalachians are prettier especially in the spring and autumn, but the Rockies are more dramatic especially in the winter.) My Buick V8's torque curve is like a wide smooth mountaintop that's dead flat from 2800rpm through 4500rpm, and it tapers gently on either side of that. Honda's VTEC technology uses variable valve timing to deliberately achieve a torque profile that isn't flat OR defined by a single curve. You can read more about that here: [asia.vtec.net] The main peak on a VTEC torque profile is at about 4000rpm. Just below that peak, there's a little bit of a dead spot. Above that peak, there's a secondary hump that stays pretty strong through about 6000rpm.

Anyhow, putting a VTEC engine in an MGB is certainly doable. You'll likely have to design and fabricate LOTS of parts yourself. Welding. Wiring. A very interesting project!

It's hard to put a pricetag on a swap because there are so many variables. I expect most MGB swaps cost between $4,000 and $10,000, not including what you paid for the MGB. You can easily spend more. To get below $4000, you'll want to find an engine that doesn't need to be rebuilt. If you shop carefully and you're patient, you can save a lot of money and work. Another idea is to divide the project into phases. For example, you might decide to get the car drivable and enjoy it for awhile before upgrading the rear axle. People change rear axles to get a better gear ratio or a limited slip differential... but a new rear axle will add at least $1200 to your budget.

Curtis, I'm sorry if this a stupid question, but when you say that your Buick V8 is flat at 2800 to 4500 rpm ,Im not sure what you saying . I'm new to you guys,please bear with me, I don't have the knowledge that you have. I want to learn

The question is simply how strongly the engine can accelerate the car at a given engine speed. Many aspects of engine design affect this. Tractor engines are designed to have "grunt" at low rpm. Many racing engines are designed to pull their best at high rpm, and they sacrifice the low end to get the high end. In a sports car on a mountain road, I like a car that pulls pretty evenly at all engine speeds. If you push the throttle pedal and hold it, you don't really perceive that it surges or goes flat as the engine speed increases. It just pulls... so the car is a little more forgiving of driver errors, such as poorly timed gear changes. Obviously, any easy modification that would raise my engine's torque output would be a welcome addition - but in terms of personality, a flat torque curve is kinda nice.

If you click on that link above and read the description next to the VTEC's torque/horsepower chart... their description is actually pretty revealing:

Quote:

In actual usage, this gives us the very nice 'VTEC surge' - i.e. once VTEC engages, there is a nice resurgent urgency in the pull from the engine. We can see this as a result of the sudden surge in torque after 4,00rpm. In actuality, on the original K20A, this surge has been amplified by the falling torque curve before VTEC engagement. Put in another way, there is a 'hole' in the torque curve at around 3,000 to 4,000rpm, before VTEC engages. This is why in actual usage, we can actually feel a lacklustre response from the engine before the VTEC engagement point. (emphasis added)

Thanks Guys for the reply to my post...
I guess I will define some more... Since I'm not the super mechanic, and will require the assistance of a few people, The engine that is currently installed on it, is stock and working somewhat. Just that I always heard in post that they drive one hour and in the shop for two. I like the look of the MGB, always wanted one, and would like to make it a "daily" reliable car.
From driving the car for two hours, I already got to deal with a slave clutch assembly,overheating on idle more than 5 min, and on brakes seems to be wanting to go left. Few electrical problems flasher stuff not working , lol I'm ok with that.

What i noticed was that the car sharp turn responsiveness was not the best... would like to make it a bit tighter.
Would like to have some acceleration but not a maniac on it...
Top speed is not a concern I would be happy to cruise on the highway at 120 to 130 KM... 80 mph
But the main issue I have, is to install the engine with the least alteration and parts modification possible. Rovers are not really available in my part of town, and im not having any preferences on american engines. The goal would be "lets make this engine go for 6000 miles. without having to fix it or "play" with it"

When we decide (the forum) on the Best engine for me, will go to the scrapyard and get the engine and start building on it, so that in late November what will be required is to install it and drive it.

I have Six months to make this project happen, in the meantime, will try to make do and hope that it will not cost me too much to drive with it for the next 4 months.

Again Great forum you will see me here lots!!!

Rob

From your post, I'd suggest that the Chevy V6 (2.8, 3.1, 3.4) engine conversion would make a suitable, reliable, daily driver.

I agree with Graham, even though I will continue to promote the Buick V6. The GM engine is a well proven, easy swap with all needed parts available while the Buick has no vendor currently selling headers so the exhaust can be a challenge. (cutting and welding stock exhaust manifolds as needed using nickel welding rod is always an option however) On the plus side, no engine has a better service record than the Buick.

Jim

Check the vendor directory (in the "contact" menu at the top of the page). In it, you'll find phone numbers and web addresses for "BMC" and for "Classic Conversions"... both of which specialize in 60 degree GM V6 conversion parts. If a plug-and-play conversion on a modest budget is what you're looking for, they've got the parts and expertise to make it happen. They both offer outstanding customer service.

Quote:

the Buick V6 has no vendor currently selling headers so the exhaust can be a challenge. (cutting and welding stock exhaust manifolds as needed using nickel welding rod is always an option however) On the plus side, no engine has a better service record than the Buick.

I'm not aware of any vendor ever offering parts for putting a Buick (90 degree) V6 in an MGB... but I wonder if it just might be possible to find iron manifolds that would work nicely even without modification in a "block hugger" configuration. The engine was installed in so very many car models (from Buick, Jeep, Olds, Pontiac, Chevy, Holden, etc.) from 1962 to 2008. If suitable iron manifolds could be found, they'd surely be cheaper, quieter, and more durable than headers. If not... cutting and welding is fun!

At the end of production, the version of Buick V6 3.8 used in the Pontiac Grand Prix was available with a supercharger and it was rated at 260hp.

Besides being used in countless street cars, very few engine models have so much racing history. We only saw one Buick V6 at this year's BritishV8 Meet, but we saw it in an Indy Light racecar during one of our outings:

Welcome Rob! From your post I think that you'd be quite happy with a GM V6 conversion, especially a 3.4 liter with the factory fuel injection and engine management in place. I have a 2.8 version in my Midget with the MPFI and love it. Just like driving my newer cars as far as drivability and reliability and plenty of power. Several of the guys that post here also sell kits or components to install the GM V6 into the MGB chassis. I'd suggest that you check out the websites for Classic Conversion Engineering (Bill Guzman) [www.classicconversionseng.com] and BMC Automobile (Brian McCollough) [www.bmcautos.com] and also British Car Conversions www.killerbv6.com for information on several takes on that swap.

OK Curtis, how do you do that quote?

Nobody makes a Buick V6 kit as such but the engine uses the same block side mounts as the 215 so all the needed parts are available except the exhausts.

Jim

Quote:

OK Curtis, how do you do that quote?

See this thread: A Couple Message Tips and Tricks

Hey thanks again for the reply...
Well it seems that the GM 3.4 liter win! lol

Few questions...

1- Is there a major cost difference between Fuel injected and Carburated? what the mods required?
2- Do I need to change the wiring harness when I go to GM 3.4? cost 500.00
3. Engine 3.4 fuel injected. 1200.00
4. Also People says it's a bolt in engine I will still need to get bracket kit? that cost approximately 750.00?
5. What about the tranny? can it stays for now? or should i change it now? also whats the cost of a tranny for the project i'm doing?
5. What else do i need to budget for please advise,

thanks Crew
Rob

Some quick answers:

1- Is there a major cost difference between Fuel injected and Carburated? what the mods required?
Parts- No. Time-yes. Its going to take longer initially to install the wiring harness for the PCM/engine management but the parts are usually about the same price when you add everything up.



2- Do I need to change the wiring harness when I go to GM 3.4? cost 500.00
No. you need to add a F.I. harness to run the engine to your existing harness that runs your lights, heater and radio- vehicle wiring harness.




3. Engine 3.4 fuel injected. 1200.00
Hmm. I purchase most of my engines off [car-part.com] and look for a 1994 Chevrolet Camaro 3.4L V6 engine. Most salvage yards have a way to ship these cross country if needed for a reasonable amount, but all yards will give a different price.




4. Also People says it's a bolt in engine I will still need to get bracket kit? that cost approximately 750.00?
Yes, the bracket kit is the headers and motor mounts. Without them, your going to spend quite a bit more time installing and you will need welding equipment and lots of skill.





5. What about the tranny? can it stays for now? or should i change it now? also whats the cost of a tranny for the project i'm doing?
The bellhousing is different. My short answer: Camaro 5 speed, far prefer a Camaro V8 T5 5 speed for those on a budget but want decent gearing.




5. What else do i need to budget for please advise,
I say with a used motor and gearbox, you should plan for around $6,000, depending on how you build. Some spent quite a bit more and some a few thousand less. The devil is in the details, not the cost of the basic engine or gearbox.



All the best,

-BMC.

Thanks Brian,
Thats good information.
Will print that and go to the yard see what i can find.
What i would like is to start with a base engine and than put it on the road and than buy performance parts as i go along
thanks
Rob

Make sure to look through car-parts website as you'll find more on the web with many yards than a few yards close to you. I have quite a bit more on the subjects of the V6 on our website and there are a number of others who have quite a bit of info out there as well that should really help in your direction.

-BMC.

Instead of going to the bone yard for an engine,look in your local paper for a cheap donor car. Look for a Firebird or Camaro that has a running V6 in it. That way you can see and hear it run. This way you get all the parts you need, wiring harness, sensors, exhuast manifolds etc. Then you can part out the rest of the car and get your cash back. You can find some body junk cars from $300-$1200. Be almost the same price as a bone yard engine alone.