MG Sports Cars

I'm building a 1972 MGB-GT with a 1979 Ford 302 using a 1979-1993 M-6392-E bell housing and a T-5 Transmission. I have researched flywheels and the only 157 tooth 50 oz. flywheel I can find is the M-6375-B302 which is listed for 1981 and later 302's. If everything else goes from 79-93, why can't the 81 and up M-6375-B302 flywheel work? Is the crankshaft different, is it because of metric pressure plate bolts and pins? I have a complete machine shop, can it be modified to work on a 1979 302? Thank you for any information you can provide.

I trhink it has something to do with the change from a 28oz balance to a 50oz balanced harmonic balancer and I believe the flywheel and possibly the crank also changed in the early '80's at the same time. The 'HO' engines were introduced in 1985 but I think that the balance change came earlier.
Try Googling for a definitive answer.

Graham is correct. 157 tooth 28 oz counter weights were for 302's from 1970 to 1980. The balancing was changed to 164 tooth 50 oz from 1981 to 1995. Make sure the correct balance for your engine is chosen or you will destroy it, that includes the correct harmonic balancer as well as the flywheel.

Thanks John and Graham, as it turns out I have a little more mystery on my hands than I thought. I was told it was a 302 out of a 1979 Mustang and it was setting in a shop next to a Mustang, but the number on the block is D8VE-6015-A3A meaning it actually came out of a 1978 Lincoln. I suppose it could have come out of the Mustang and not been the original motor. I don’t know what differences there are, or if it really makes a difference. Were the Blocks the same, were the cranks the same? All I’ve bought so far is a 79-93 M-6392-E bellhousing from Ted at Fast Cars so it may not be a total loss, just a lesson learned.

Dale Spooner sent me the following:

"...all 302's 1980 and earlier use the 28oz flywheel. '81 and up use 50 oz. He also is concerned that his motor is from a '78 Lincoln, not a '79 Mustang as he originally thought. No difference, the only Lincoln that was any different was the Versailles, which had a crank triggered ignition. Pioneer makes a flywheel with 28 oz and 157 teeth, part # FW163 if he wants an aftermarket one. The balance is pretty close on them, I've checked many. It's the OE Ford's that are all over the place. So if you have a spare minute between projects.....Dale

Thanks Guy’s, this is a big help. I’ve been involved in building 22 Chevy powered T-Bucket Roadsters from scratch, including mine, but as Ford has had a relationship with British cars for decades, I wanted to go that direction for a change. The problem is I know very little about what works and what doesn’t when it comes to Ford engines. I also have a '95 302 out of my Son’s Explorer but don’t want to deal with the distributor issue, or the lack of a distributor I should say. If you use a late model 302 is there a way to use an early intake to get around this or would it be better to stick with the 78? I need to make that decision before ordering the flywheel. My bellhousing is for a 79-93 T-5 so I don’t know if it would work with the 95, but on the other hand I haven’t checked to see if it will work with my 78 either. Thanks for the tip on the Pioneer flywheel. John said the harmonic balancer had to match the flywheel; what should I look for there? Again, thanks for taking the time to help.

In my opinion the '95 explorer motor would be the choice. It's a roller cam block and has a good serpentine accessory drive that works well in the mgb. Of course I guess you could swap that over to the older motor, but there are cheap mustang parts that fit the explorer motor nicely. As far as I know you can put a carbed intake (Edelbrock etc) on the '95 motor with a distributor. I haven't researched these issues in years (I ended up with a '94 mustang 5.0, stayed with the injection), but you can go to www.stangnet.com and search and find all of the specific info you need on ford stuff.

I'm with Ryan - the explorer motor is the one I'd go with. For the dizzy you would need one with a steel gear -- if getting a new one - order one for a 1985 mustang gt with 5 spd (gt - not cobra). Bad things happen with roller cams and iron dizzy gears.

I know you guys are right so I think I'll use the 78/79 block for mockup and motor mount placement, then go with the later motor as it is of true known condition so doesn't need to be rebuilt. I don't know if it matters, but I thought it was a 95, my son emailed me that the Explorer was a 98, not a 95. I thought they stopped at 95 but as it turns out, Ford says they put 302's in some cars and trucks until 2001. The reason I shyed away from the 98 was the no distributor issue. What do I have to do to the 98 to be able to put a MSD, or some other, distributor on it if I chose not to deal with the computer, or can it be done to begin with? I don't have the 98 to look at as it's at my son's house, does the distributor drive through the water pump housing?

Hi Paul, you can built a small block Ford many ways (mix and match), I suggest that you go to Borders book store in the auto section and look at some of the Ford small block paper back they offer. There's one by George Reid called "How to rebuilt the Ford Small Block". There's a wealth of information on castings, balancing, cranks, etc.,.

There's also an other very good book by Isaac Martin (HP Books) named " Ford Windsor, Small-Block Performance". It also covers the famous 5.0 Liter HO and its EFI. (I prefer this book)

I don't quite know what you're trying to do, but, I can offer this advise: unless you're planning in building a small block above 500 horse power I would stick with the late model 5.0 Liter for two reasons, parts availability and light weight. 1987 to 1992 5.0 HO from a Mustang came with forged pistons and roller cam. In 1993 Ford switched to hypereutectic pistons which is an excellent street/race piston. If you plan in some kind of power adder I'd stick with forged.

In order to keep it on the short side, you'll need to use the 1995 water pump and timing cover, that'll save you 1-1/2" lenght wise.

Anyway, there's so much that you can do with these small block, you can even switch crankshaft however you must respect the origine for balance purpose. Here's a link of an aluminum flywheel that come with both, the 25oz and the 50oz weights (157 tooth). An aluminum flywheel will accellerate much quicker and also helps decellerate.

[cgi.ebay.com]

Get yourself one of these two books, you'll enjoy the reading. Good luck, you've made the right choice by going with the Ford powertrain.

Thanks Jacques, great information; I’ll try to stop by Border’s after work tonight. I agree with you about the pistons. I have a T-Bucket Roadster (my friends and I built 22 of them from scratch including bodies and suspension, no kits) and I used Keith Black hypereutectic pistons. The bucket is rather high performance to the point of being scary at time so the 302 in the MG will stay pretty much stock as I need something a little more economical to drive, I’m even toying with the idea of using an automatic but that’s not quit a done deal just yet. I’ve had the GT for over 30 years now and just wanted to update it with a motor that could power the car and the air-conditioning at the same time. I’m still puzzled a tad about the motor I have. It came out of my son’s 1998 Explorer which was bought new and has never been out of the family. The body is bad from surviving the coast and my son. He pulled it and the trans and when we checked the block casting it is a F1SE which is a 1991 Thunderbird motor. It’s still at his house so I can’t check it out, but I have no idea if it is a roller motor or not. Again, thanks for the information, I’ll add it to my planning.

91 T-Bird motor should be an HO (you can check the firing order to make sure it will have the 351 fire order) any way the 91 T-Bird Ho moter is a forged piston roller moter the dizzy sitd behind the water pump as all ford 302s do. you can change it to a Hei aftermarket dizzy and put any 302 intake on it if you choose to go with a carb.

The ford Mustang (mass air) EFI is a good system (Not what is in the Explorer) and can handle lots of HP as well as Cam profiles very adaptive something to think about.

Paul,

I'm putting a 2000 Explorer motor in my Austin-Healey and have done a fair amount of research. You can see my build here: [forum.britishv8.org] The '98 Explorer motor will make a great base for a swap. My motor has a Trick Flow Stage 1 cam, Crane beehive valve springs, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap manifold, Holley 570 CFM Street Avenger carb and a recurved Ford Duraspark distributor from Performance Distributors. It dyno-ed at 342.5 hp at the flywheel. If you want a little less kick, you could put in a stock Mustang 5.0 cam. You will definitely need a cam and valve spring change as the truck cam in the Explorer motor will die over 4000 rpm. If the Performer Air Gap is too tall to clear the hood of the B, you might go with something like the Weiand Stealth intake. The distributor choice can be anything from a MSD billet, Mallory Unilite or even some of the cheapy Pro-comps you see on ebay as long as they are fitted with a steel gear to match the roller cam. I'm using the Duraspark to trigger a Mallory MSD6AL box as this seemd to be the most reliable choice. You are also going to need to find a harmonic balancer and pulley to match the serpentine belt set-up. You will also need to replace the oil pan and pick-up as the Explorer one is too deep. Most of the parts from your Lincoln motor can be used to replace the Explorer parts. There's a good summary of the process here: [www.ffcobra.com]
You'll have to be careful with headers as your motor has GT40P heads, that have a different spark plug angle that not all headers for small block Fords will fit.

Nice looking T-bucket by the way!
Good luck,
Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2009 06:40PM by HealeyRick.

Joe, Rick, thanks for the information, you guys are more help than you know. Jacques, I picked up both books and they help a lot too, thank you. The Bucket is my baby but I’m really getting into the MG mod. I’m keeping all the stuff that came out of the Explorer but knowing my personality like I do I’ll probably go with the carb and the HEI. I think the automatic needs a computer so that will make that decision for me as well. I have a chance to get a T-5 out of a 95 gts 5.0 for $350.00 but it’s on Craig’s List and as I got burned on one engine and T-5 using the list, I’m somewhat suspect of such deals, also I’m not sure it’s a world class transmission. 90 percent of the under hood cutting has been done but I think I’ll hold off on any more until I go to my son’s and get the motor.

Paul, FYI 94-95 V8 Mustang T5's use a longer input shaft and will not work with the M-6392-E bellhousing. Look for a 87-93 T5.

Regards
Pete

Thanks Pete, Fortunately I've been finishing a T-Bucket roadster for a friend and haven't had the opportunity to look for one so haven't bought the wrong one. I'll try to find a 87-93.