MG Sports Cars

That's me. My '77 B with Buick 215 runs great, handles better, and is going to be an awesome autoX platform...BUT when I bought it from the PO in Texas, it never occurred to me to think whether this car would be registrable in Washington DC, where I live. Most sensible states, like Texas, don't inspect cars more than, say, 25 years old. Not DC! In order to get historic tags -- historic tags -- I've got to pass one emissions inspection. Then the car never has to be inspected again. The computer down at the inspection station says my maximum tailpipe output has to be 600, but this morning Sleepy blew over 3200! This is of course because the cat and air pump, all that stuff, is gone, but they don't know that. They don't know it's an engine swap.

But there is a loophole. If I bring them receipts from an ASE certified mechanic totaling more than $855 in emissions repairs alone, they'll waive the inspection. Then I can get my historic tags. I have a mechanic willing to write up some receipts: cat, air pump, all that. I don't THINK they're gonna crawl under the car to check for what is, as far as they know, a REPLACEMENT cat.

Does anyone have any DC inspections experience? Will this scheme work? Any suggestions? Or am I screwed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2010 09:30PM by James.

James, I have a lot of experience with the District of Columbia's emission inspection. We send vehicles on a routine basis from our shop (WMATA). Since the big scandal in the early '90's (taxi cab bribes) they are under heavy watch. There are heavy penalties if someone catches you trying to produce fraudulent repair bills. You may want to research that part of the code.

My advice to you would be to see what can be done to reduce what ever pollutant(s) (you didn't mention) reads high. Think about purchasing a pair of high flow universal converters, it may just fix the problem and I assure you that it would not hurt the performance of your car. That repair alone could help you serve them with an exaggerated repair bill, add on a can of Berkible 2+2 Gum Cutter to clean your carb and have your friend call it a "carb overhaul" and between the cost of both repairs you should meet the emission waiver cost requirements.

It's like everywhere else, businesses have lazy employees and also diligent ones and when you return for a re-inspection you may get the head inspector bend down and look for verification of repairs that is the way they do us. I hope this was helpful.

Good Luck!

James, I agree with Jacques. Trying to get around the “MAN” can be a risky business with consequences you don’t want to deal with. I’m retired military, moved around a lot, and have dealt with transferring titles and registration from state to state and on more than one occasion had to “Cowboy Up” as we say down here. When I faced DC’s nonsense in that and other areas, I moved, but I'm sure that’s an option you wouldn’t entertain so you have to fall back on option “one.” While Texas is better in this area than DC, it too has hoops we have to jump through in registering specialized and hand built vehicles. I have a F-150 truck registered in South Carolina and to transfer the title Texas wants me to pay sales taxes on a vehicle I’ve owned for two years; I don't think they call it sales tax anymore, but that's what it is. I know it’s frustrating but use caution and things will work out.


"P"

Another possible solution. You have to stick it to the man sometimes I say.

In Missory you can just sign an affidavit at the DOMV stating the car is kept out of state. The safety and emmisions are waived, insurance doesn't care. You drive around with insurance in a car that you just returned to the state in if you get pulled over.
I know the republicans won't like this solution but it works and doesn't hurt anyone. It circumvents any useless laws pertaining to our hobbies. P.S. works for other cars besides MGs.......... Of the people for the people

If you don't work on and maintain your own car I do recomend safety inspection for your safety.

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know quite what I will do yet, but I have pretty much given up on the phony receipts idea. It's just too risky. I'll let you all know how it works out. How frustrating to have this great car and not be able to drive it!!

James,

I had to lean out the carb and disable a couple of spark plug leads. Ran a bit rough, but raised the idle a bit, and it got through.

Recommend you talk with Jim Stuart. He always has good ideas.

Johnny

Hey,
I put a buddys work truck through Florida emissions testing (before they got smart and dumped it ) by jacking up the idle to about 2500 RPM. Enough to get it off the idle circuit. Engine sounded like it was going to come apart and EVERYBODY in the place was looking at it because it was loud as heck but it went straight through. Guy from California told me about it.
Bill

Well, that will never work in Ca. Bill R. The Ca smog process is very detail, they check it at factory idle setting, timing, visual check of all of the smog equipement in place, gas cap for vapor leaking and Cat. Then is run at 15 mph (on rollers) then they get the signal from the ECU and check for enrichment, then the speed increases to 25 or 35 mph until the computer in the smog place tells the operator to stop. All of this time the tail pipe is conected to the sniffer measuring the exhaust.

If the timing is off when they manually checked, the vehicle will not pass even if the sniff test passed. After the test then they check the vapor canister. Oh, I forgot they also check for exhaust and vacuum leaks, this was one way they used to cheat about 20 years ago.

I live where the smog laws started and is the leader in setting the bar for smog regulations in the world, yeap that is correct.
Ventura County in Ca. I just had my 1990 454 SS truck smoged by a smog only station, it took 35 to 45 minutes to do the test.
I have a different air cleaner and coil, and both stickers with a BAR # which comes with the product has be in place in the engine bay for the inspector to see, if not, it will pass.
The computers/test machine that are used to do the smog check are connected to the Ca state DMV and they monitor and can tell who is cheating. The CARB (Califpornia Air Resource board) has field inspectors checking every station that is authorized to do smog checks. There are very stiff fines and jail time.
One of the reasons why GM has come up with a LS 1 engine that comes complete with cats and all necessary smog equipemnt to install in older cars so that they are smog legal.

The best way to deal with it, is to give your car a good tuneup and adjust your AFR' (Air Fuel Ratio) and timing where it should be. Check what your state requires and do it. It is allot easier now than later.

Quote:

The best way to deal with it, is to give your car a good tuneup and adjust your AFR' (Air Fuel Ratio) and timing where it should be. Check what your state requires and do it. It is allot easier now than later.

That's really good general advice. Where I'm currently living, north of Denver, my GT-V8 had to be smog-tested on a rolling road. It passed on the second try, after re-jetting the carb leaner, and it runs much better on the leaner settings too.

Keep your chin up James! There's a solution waiting to be found. You'll be driving and enjoying that car soon.

Florida was never the leader in emissions testing, thank God! Mid 80's is when I got the info and late 80's is when I got my buddys truck through. I guess technology has advanced. Have to say that LA used to be really bad with smog. Emissions control really does work in some areas. Florida got rid of it when a Represenative had to sit in his car for several hours.
Bill

There are a lot of things you can do to help an engine run more efficiently.

Running with a 190 degree thermostat helps two ways; it lowers the coefficient of friction between the cylinders and the pistons, and it helps atomize the fuel in the carb.

Make sure your ignition system has enough voltage by checking all the electrical connections; battery cable clamps, ground connections to the chassis and the engine, and make sure the voltage sensing connection between the alternator and the fuse block is wired in correctly.

Make sure the carb is set up right. If you have an electric fuel pump, you'll need a fuel pressure regulator to get the pressure to the carb down to 3 psi.

Check for air leaks such as a leaking brake booster diaphragm, or a leaking intake manifold gasket.

Check to see if all cylinders are firing evenly by pulling the plug wires off the running engine one at a time and listening to see if the engine speed drops the same amount. If the engine speed does not drop, that cylinder is not running right.

It just might be easier to fix the engine than to try to cheat the test. BTW, it's worth repeating that a properly sized catalytic converter, together with an AIR pump, does not effect engine performance on a gas engine.

Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement.

An efficient burning engine along with clean burning is a horsepower making machine. I often try to convince people that want to do a conversion to leave the EGR valve working as it helps detonation and increases MPG while cruising. The principle is simple, since the EGR valve only works at part throttle (low eng. load) to introduce burnt exhaust/gas (oxygen free) the oxygen sensor reads that oxygen is low and basically tells the ECM to back off the fuel curve, hence increasing your cruising MPG and cooler engine temperature. The key is that the EGR does not work at wide open throttle (WOT) for maximum engine performance.

The problem with FI cars is that after 1995 the government required lower emission therefore ODB II came in to play and pushed the ECM to recognize an emission fault with greater engine response. The car manufacturers made it also harder to tweak/fool the ECM. This is where companies started to offer aftermarket Engine management systems where someone could program the ECM to meet their custom ride.

The two first cars from the 80"s that made people realize that computer could manage fuel and air with the best of both worlds (MPG & EPA) was the Buick Grand National and the Ford Mustang 5.0L. Most people do conversion with a pre ODB II system as the O2 sensor(s) are placed before the converters, hence, no computer reading is necessary after the converters. I happen to think that Ford’s EECC-IV system is one of the last desirable OE transplant.

In my humble opinion, everyone should try to re-install the basic pollution control devises, such as, the charcoal canister (EVAP), the EGR system and a pair of high flow converters however, the air pump is sometimes difficult to fit in the front but considering that you are installing modern fuel injection in an older car the FI probably compensate for the lost. A perfect example of a good effort is Kelley Stevenson's 5.0L MG.

Every year some anti street rod advocate or tree huggers introduce legislation to make it impossible to restore or built muscle cars, this is why I challenge myself to produce better emission readings at the tailpipe than the original engine set up delivered. The days of idling with black smoke coming out the tailpipe are avoidable even if you run a carbureted car.

Very true Jacques. GM now offers a LS 2 with everything to pass smog in Ca. and still pump over 425 hp and 400 lb of torque smog legal.
There are talks about tail pipe reading on the Fwys of Ca. This is done by a device that is instll in the Fwy. It can (present time as they are tested) read the tail pipe gasses, if it measures high for someones standards for that particu;ar vehicle it takes a picture of the license plate and you get a notice in the mail. OK how can they know what year of vehicle, simple the first two digits of the plate.
Same as traffic lights when you run a red light, it takes a picture and you get a ticket in the mail.

No joke, is comming. It will not matter if the car is excempt from smog, it will read the tail pipe gasses.

Hi Bill, is this LS 2 offered by GM Performance for street rod application and how hard does it hit your wallet?

My understanding is that some states are also trying to block anyone trying to increase the amount of cylinders a vehicle originally came out of the factory with even if a bigger engine was optional. Their argument is that you are altering the volumetric output of the emission at the tailpipe. It's always the same game, extremist trying to flex their annoyance at the expense of the reasonable car enthusiasts. We need to find a way to annoy them back (LOL).

We are lucky in Ca. in that respect. The law implies that the engine of choice and installed must have all of the smog equipement that came with the engine, it most pass the visual and tail pipe. Ca. has not even mention to stop swaps.
I hope they do not read this post. You can not install an engine that is older than the car. Alwasy newer.
Actually that is a benefit and Ca sees that as a plus. I hope the state offers incentives to update older cars. Well....is not going to happen we are out of money.
I saw the package at SEMA and it is complete ready to install.

Yes GMPP offers the engine and the cost is not out. LS 2 engine is about $6k I am assuming that it could be in the 10-14k which is not that bad when you consider what you are getting. A Smog legal brute.

This is an intro interview [www.break.com]

and if I am correct this is the web page gmperformanceparts.com When you go the page click on E-Rod

WOW nice product! It’s definitely aimed at a vehicle with a little more engine room than an MG if you want the converters to clear.

I look at it this way. The whole number of specialty cars is something like 1 percent of all cars on the road. Many of these are either exotics, 4x4's, or are strictly bolt-on parts like a nice set of wheels and tires. That leaves so few cars %-wise that have any engine/drivetrain modifications at all that it seems ridiculous to spend our money on a bureaucracy to legislate against them. Now lets look at the time that these cars are being driven compared to a normal commuter car. The % drops dramatically again. How many millions of dollars is your state spending every year to carry the infrastructure of this? I'm thinking it's a bad investment.
Every time I see a train at a crossing or big truck take off and it belches a huge cloud of diesel-black in the air I see the exhaust of every specialty car in that local area combined for the same amount of emission time. Follow the money............

Hal, you couldn't be more on the mark. I don't know about you other guys, but before my V8 mod began my MG would set for weeks without being started and my T-Bucket has been setting on a battery tender the entire winter. OK, the Harley has seen some road time, but not enough to kill all the trees in my neighborhood.