MG Sports Cars

Bill, the 478 ci was actually stroke to 572 ci and it was use on a baja truck in the early 70's

Brian C.,

You remember those cars that came as part of the 1970's? The ones that were jacked up in the rear because it was cool or whatever? The majority of people did that because they understood that it made the car fast for cheap. If was what they did for wide rubber under a body designed to take smaller, the motors were sometimes given power but I think many people ignored the parts between. The designs were poor.

Now lets go to an MGB that was originally designed with much lower BHP/Tq- you want the power to hook up- NO Question!

You are not going to jack the car up, well, if you do its no longer a sports car, its err, a drag queen? How many MG owners purchase their cars to look like a 1970's American car? None. For drivability AND appearance, we keep the cars low on all four corners- but this also limits us as to how much power we can put to the ground.

What do we do to get the power to the ground? Maybe flare the rear, maybe tub- both Really costly (out of half of our budgets) We use the best rubber we can find, place limited slip in the rear axle and maybe naroow an axle so we can get that 215 in the rear instead of that 205 series. All of this costs money but in the end, we get something that sticks.

Suspension in the rear become very critical when you no longer have a car that just needs to handle well in the corners but on take-off. Now you need to spend a bit more in order to make the product work properly. Too much BHP/Tq is not going to do anything but wear out your rubber shoes but if all you want is a cheap way to burn rubber...

Another thing we do is look at weight reduction, gearing of the rear axle AND gearbox combo (improper anywhere slows you down)

MGs and other small British cars were never designed to hold the BHP that we place in them. If your going to build a 600 BHP with about as much torque out of a SBC or SBF, leave the rear end stock, leave perfectly stock wheels and tyres, leave the stock rear suspension, leave the stock front suspension, leave everything else on the car set up for less than 100 BHP, I can assure you a V6 MGB with a decent suspension, axle and tire setup is going to beat you to 60 MPH. Sure after 60 you can beat that car to 90, but I would ask whether your car is safe at that point.

Now there is not formula that I am aware of but I would suspect that adding 50BHP more to a car is relatively safe with an otherwise stock car.

Adding 100BHP/Tq to a car and you need to start looking at tires and a little in suspension if your planning on getting on the car a bit.

Adding 150 BHP/Tq- your going to start getting a bit more serious about building the rest of the car.

So on and so forth.

Now I am not saying you need the latest and greatest, but often we tend to go in that direct.

So how much is too much? Depends on the job your car is built for. Even with 2,000 BHP/Tq in your otherwise stock MGB, dont expect to kill Vipers or AWD 911 Turbos- you will find your dreams literally go up in smoke- rubber smoke!

Myself- for Bragging rights alone I would like 200 RWBHP. With my stock 3.4L untouched it has 140 BHP/ 185 Lbs Tq at the rear wheels. I am in no rush to get there- I need to install my 3.42 limited slip rear axle and other items first.

-BMC.

Great job, Brian.

Just for the record, I'll be the one that goes out there & declares that there is such a thing as too much torque/horsepower...................... I just haven't experienced it, yet. ; D

Seriously, remember MGBs were/are meant to be sports cars, not Funny Cars.

300-350HP, 300 or so lbft seems just about right for a well sorted MGB. I don't know how well I'd do in a drag race vs a lower torque conversion, but since I'm not into drag racing. it doesn't really matter (although I think I'd win in the quarter, probably even in 0-60 - traction is NOT a problem). It does every thing I want it to do, and does it very well indeed. Handles well, stops well, and kicks me in the back hard when I get on it. Looks pretty good too, more like a sports car than a hot rod.

As far as I'm concerned, a 300HP Ford 302 MGB is just about perfect.

Dan,

I make it a point to never argue with perfect. ;)

That said, I do believe that those with stock MGs would be ecstatic with 200 ft/llbs of torque & 160-200 rear wheel horsepower.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2010 12:24PM by MGBV8.

I think so too Carl.

I have long said that for the *average* driver the 60 degree V6 is the perfect compliment to the MGB. It's just the right size, both physically and in terms of power and has some room for upgrades. It transforms the car and is very driveable. OTOH, the BOPR has the ligitimacy of a factory build for those to whom such things matter, and they appear to be in the majority since that swap still remains the most popular one. Upgrades from there are numerous and powerful, ranging clear up through the Buick 340 with a 5.7 L build being fairly simple to do. The SBF swap has proven itself and a less expensive route to power has not been discovered. This makes a very fine car. And finally at the upper end we have cars like the MGB-Roadmaster 455 Buick, the LS series swap that Pete is working on, my blown SBB 340 and a few others, very tractable and feasible conversions but largely untested and unproven. In the next year or so we should be seeing just how well the car holds up to these power levels, as well as how some alternative rear suspensions perform.

I agree with Dan M that 300hp is a very good power level for the MGB. Spend just a little time with one and it will make a believer out of you. Formerly I felt that 240hp was really all you could want, but I was wrong. Before that I felt that 200hp would just make an exceptional car. And I was right. As does 140hp. So my point is that with this car any substantial increase, say of 50 or more additional horsepower, is going to simply cause you to be ecstatic about the improved performance of the car. So in that sense *every* swap will be the right one. But it's a good idea to look to the future because as good as the new power level is (and it will be very good indeed) there is still more to be had if you want it. You can satisfy yourself at any point and say that the suspension or the tires (or the driver) might not handle the extra power and that could be true. But we continue to prove that it ain't necessarily so. And as much as I do appreciate Carl's dominance of the autocross course with his truly magnificent driving skills, out on the mountain roads, horsepower rules. (well, that and huevos)


Jim

Quit embarrassing me, Jim. There are quite few drivers in our group. My car is just set up better than theirs. ;)

"out on the mountain roads, horsepower rules"

Probably not so much on roads like the Tail of the Dragon.

cojones.

cojones.

The key to driving those roads.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2010 02:09PM by Dan B.

Amazing Jim and Dan. Using a word that actually comes from Galicia Spain. It is galician dialect.

I said 300 only because I've never driven one with 400. It may be that 400 is the "just right" number?

Carl, who was in front last time we were on the Dragon?

JB

I was until I pulled over & let someone else lead. ;)

Wrong !!!!! I am going for the max 347 ci 500 hpVortech Supercharger, going for 7-9 psi good for an extra 150-200 plus (street boost)---700 hp NOW what it really counts 650 + lb of torque rear wheel numbers. Oh yes some juice good for another 100+ hp. do not want to go overboard.
This package will be control by an ECU with 1000 cfm throtle body.

I should be able to crusie the streets at speed limit, enter the FWY like everyone else, ok! just a bit faster, drive at over the speed limit by 10-15 mph, I will be able pass anyone when I have to, except a police car.

Then I can drive the car to the local road course for track days and dirve it a half throtle or less.
When I park the B in the garage, I will figure a way to get more power from it, it is never enough. LOL Just having fun guys.

On a serious note. There is no magical number to say it is enough, not sir. Enough is when you have reach the limit of the engine you have or satisfied as Mr. Masters. Now if we take Mr. Masters GT and.....nooo it is just right as it is.

The magical number could be 200 or 900 +

I've been observing from the distance. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks for chiming in everybody. I've gotten a 'sense' of what I'm looking to accomplish. Honestly, I think the 300hp/tq range sounds about right. As I mentioned earlier, I'm using Ted's front end, he also set me up with a Ford 8" off a Grenada (I think). It has 3:27 gears with an Auburn positraction and the Willwood disc brakes. I'll use the T-5 transmission. For the rear suspension I've read some about the 3-link setup, though I'm using the 1" lowering springs, tube shocks and sway bar. The only issue I have'nt ironed out is the rear wheels/tires. I'd love to put a little flare on there, for looks, but also to get enough rubber on the car. Unless I mail the car to somebody the only way to get flares is to do it myself. I've got some decent welding experience over the past 5 yrs, but maybe the welding is the least of my worries on a project like that...
Anyway, from all the banter on this thread, I think the 300 range, with the drivetrain setup, sounds like a nice fit. Any comments welcome. Thanks again, guys.

what does 200hp feel like? I know what 150hp mgc feels like Maybe I need 300 to enjoy
Have quite a bit tied up in 215 conversion stuff. Wanted 100hp nitrous shot on 215 olds to make that 300. Cost big bucks for forged pistons though. Any ideas what it would cost to build 300 hp rover block vs 215 olds

Until recently there was a tuner car shop a block from our hanger/shop/hangout. Though none were what I would refer to as World Class Tuners, they were amazed at the performance of a Bucket and, as a general rule, only tried their luck once. I would always tell them Horsepower is great, but its torque that makes the world go around and if you doubt that go drive a big block. Buckets, no matter how well engineered run out of down force and aerodynamics about three feet off the line and past 100 miles an hour or so become rather intimidating so given enough distance some would catch us and blow our door off (we only have one door on the passenger side you know) but being about half their weight doesn’t hurt and that's something LBC's have going for them. "P"

PS: Any contest of speed was done at the airport. Understanding the need for getting from one red light to another and how precious our time really is, we don’t condone or support street racing.

Hi Brian,

The arguement over hp and torque has been going on forever. It all boils down to the car and how it feels. Torque is what gets you moving and what you percieve. Horsepower is what gets you the high speed rush. In a lighter car torque becomes less of an issue due to traction and weight differences. Idealy you would want just enough torque to keep your tires planted and enough, horse power to mph where you want. But life ain't that simple. In my shop we sit down with the customer and spend a considerable amount of time to determine what they expect out of the car. Almost every time we build a less agressive car. The big burly v8 is attractive but isn't as fun as you would think. In our (British etc. ) cars it is too heavy. It destroys any sembelance of handling, and causes severe suspension and frame problems. Good choices seem to favour the higher rpm japanese v8s or the cadillac northstars et al. My own car is a stretched B with a 4 turboed 6.0L jag v 12. It's retardedly fast in a straight line (11.12 @127mph) but it won't out corner a pu truck. What do you want your car to do?

Cheers
Fred

"The big burly v8 is attractive but isn't as fun as you would think. In our (British etc. ) cars it is too heavy. It destroys any sembelance of handling, and causes severe suspension and frame problems."

That's an intersting statement. It's also untrue.

Fred wrote:

Quote:

My own car is a stretched B with a 4 turboed 6.0L jag v 12...

We need to see lots of pictures of this one!


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