MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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V6 Midget
Bill Young
Kansas City, MO
(1337 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 09:23AM

Main British Car:
'73 MG Midget V6 , '59 MGA I6 2.8 GM, 4.0 Jeep

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: V6 Midget
Date: January 23, 2008 08:38AM

Jim, I have a late model pedal assembly that I'll donate. I disassembled it to check some clearances on my project so I'll have to put it back together and make sure I haven't lost any of the parts. Then I'll break it down for shipping and find a box. I'll let you know when it's on the way. Give me a couple of weeks if you can.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 23, 2008 04:25PM

Thank you Bill, that will be great. A couple weeks or so is no problem whatsoever.

Jim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 28, 2008 07:28PM

Time for the monthly update. I have BIG news so stay tuned. I suppose eventually I'll come up with some catchy title for it, but since Roadmaster Weekend is the last weekend of each month it seems pretty obvious that within a few days after that I'll always be posting something to pass on the occurrences of that weekend. Today I'm a little hampered by skin splits on my fingers caused by the dry winter air and by general wear, tear and all around abuse, which means using different fingers to type with. That means I get a lot more errors than usual, but I hope you'll bear with me if I don't catch them all.

As you know, we held the January Roadmaster Weekend in conjunction with Ted's winter party. It's a relatively small gathering of diehard enthusiasts, as Ted has limited space, but as a fair number of members were going to be there it seemed to make sense to do it that way. Whether we should always do that is a fair question to ask, as we don't want to wear out our welcome, but this time around at least, it seemed to work out well. I will attempt to name those in attendance and if I embarrass myself by overlooking someone I hope you will bring it to my attention. I was there of course, and Carl Floyd. I understand Steve DeGroat had family duties to attend to and couldn't make it. Naturally family comes first. Also present, Ted Lathrop of course, Dan Masters, Pete Mantell, Rick Ingram, Graham Creswick and Steve Carrick. Seems like I missed somebody. Well, I do have a little trouble with names so please remind me. I've been known to forget my own sometimes. At any rate, out of 40 members that's a pretty good turnout, a rate of 20% or better. I credit very much of that to Ted of course.

We did not interfere with the party itself, simply conducting several matters of business in small conversations over the course of the day. Sunday morning after meeting at Ted's shop we all went to breakfast at the Big Boy and having two officers present I asked Carl if we should conduct a meeting, which we promptly did. The meeting was called to order, a call was made for any old business, new business, monkey business, or funny business, and none being raised and no objections given to adjournment the meeting was promptly closed and we continued our breakfast. There are two points I should mention. Having failed to determine the date of the next meeting before adjournment, the question was raised immediately thereafter and I responded that it would be the last weekend of February, or Roadmaster Weekend. That is incorrect. Roadmaster Weekend is an activity, not a meeting of BADASS, NLC and the next regular meeting will coincide with this summer's British V8 Meet in Wisconsin, hosted by Paul and Mary Schills. The second point is that we have set a few precedents and unless there are objections or alternate suggestions I suppose we will continue along the same path. The first precedent was that of having 2 of the 3 officers present to conduct a meeting. I would further suggest that one of those 2 could be represented by a proxy assigned by them. The second precedent was that we met over breakfast at a relatively quiet place. I think this was an excellent idea.

During the course of the party I had opportunities to discuss several important aspects of the project with very knowledgeable people with positive results. One such conversation was with Ted concerning the Jag IRS and that has led me to an entirely new perspective on the rear suspension, one in which I have greatly revised my calculations of loading on the rear lower control arms (LCA). The upshot is that we should be able to make a much simplified built up LCA using a triangulated forward mount and perhaps moving the inner pivot outboard of the brake rotor. For those interested the reasoning follows, if you could care less skip the next paragraph:

Taking 500 ft/lbs of torque and multiplying it through the gearbox and diff we come up with about 4500 ft/lb split equally left and right or 2250 per side which is transmitted to the ground through a 1 ft long lever (roughly 24" tire) resulting in 2250 lbs of thrust being applied to each hub in the forward direction if we could prevent wheelspin. This thrust is absorbed through a 6" lever (the upright) and transferred to the LCA through the two lower attachment points which are about 6" apart. This means that a 60" lever tied to the rear attachment at one end and also to the front one should be capable of accepting my full weight at the other end of the lever without deforming the LCA. If it can do that, then it should handle the torque output of the motor. To add a margin of safety it should be able to handle me bouncing on it as well, but if it can handle all the force I can apply at that end by jumping up and down on it with all my might (with no signs of distress to the LCA) then it is probably too heavy. Ted's initial thoughts that a 1" x .125" wall tubing construction would be suitable, should be right in line with that analysis, and I can easily construct a test setup to determine if it is strong enough. So that is on the agenda, and will allow us to remove a considerable bit of unsprung weight. I think we can simplify the attachment and setup in the process, though some issues dealing with pinion angle adjustment remain. However, I really am beginning to feel that except for the lack of a top link and CV half-shafts the Jag IRS represents an excellent choice, and very near the best choice for an IRS in an MGB.

There were a number of other ideas that were picked up which we can use without any extra work, but the real BIG NEWS is as follows. I was pleased to meet and have a long conversation with an enthusiast named Arthur Mitchell (Chicago) who has joined our ranks. Arthur has been building a Cobra and is nearing completion, but felt dismay and discouragement that the ancient design of the front suspension was not in keeping with the rest of the kit, and had nearly lost interest when he discovered Ted's front suspension. He immediately procured one and fit it to the car, much pleased and with his enthusiasm rekindled. He was at the party, thrilled to find such a fine group of like minded enthusiasts. As excellent as all that is, there's more to come. I had just been discussing with Rick Ingram the possibility of using MGC spindles on the front of the Roadmaster to match the JAG hubs, and it seemed fortuitous to say the least that the MGC used the same Chevy lug pattern used by the Jag. That was followed by a discussion with Kurt Schley regarding the difficulties of acquiring said MGC hubs, with some thoughts of getting them from the UK or Europe (and if anyone can help with that please contact Kurt or me). Well, sometimes I'm just a little slow to connect the dots and it wasn't until the next day when Ted suggested it that I realized Arthur had our solution sitting right there taking up space in his garage if he was willing to help us out. I got home and one email later I had our answer. Not only was Arthur willing to help, he is donating to us the entire unit, a modified MGB front suspension with 11" Camaro brakes and other significant upgrades such as greasable pivot bushings, extended LCA links and galvanealed parts. Now admittedly this is not on par with Ted's excellent unit, and notably heavier, but since we don't have adequate funds in the treasury to buy one of those and Ted is not in a position to donate one to the cause, this is an excellent second choice. It allows us to keep the stock Jag rear hubs and personally I feel that having an extra lug with the kind of torque we're dealing with is a very good idea. It does mean that we'll need different wheels. That makes this the biggest mistake I've made so far on this car, in not planning for 5 lug wheels, but a few things changed along the way. I will coordinate with Jim Stuart how we will deal with the wheels we now have, but it looks like those may be available for sale, and we need to get a set with the Chevy lug pattern.

All in all I must say that this is an excellent activity for the middle of the winter, bolstering enthusiasm and raising the overall mood. It makes me want to go right out and build that LCA test setup. Ted said he can provide us with a front swaybar or perhaps with rear LCA's after the design is set. Now I want everyone to understand that I did not go up there with the idea in mind of soliciting contributions, nor did I conduct myself in that manner while there. There is a certain amount of that sort of thing I must do, just so that people know that the opportunity is here, or that they don't inadvertently forget past pledges of support that they have made. But I also realize as well as anyone that circumstances can change and sometimes what seemed possible turns out not to be. I don't want anyone to feel in any way that they are being pressured into helping to make this happen. It is and will remain a totally voluntary project. If that means that our timeline has to slip a bit, that is better than having even one member feeling like they had been coerced. With everyone's support we will indeed complete this car, and then we'll have some real bragging rights. In the meantime we have a really neat way of bringing everyone together to work on a common goal.

Jim

Arthur's MGB/Cobra suspension
IMG_0213.jpg
Hub
IMG_0211.jpg
Brakes
IMG_0216.jpg
Pivot bushing
IMG_0207.jpg


V6 Midget
Bill Young
Kansas City, MO
(1337 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 09:23AM

Main British Car:
'73 MG Midget V6 , '59 MGA I6 2.8 GM, 4.0 Jeep

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: V6 Midget
Date: January 29, 2008 09:02AM

Jim, thanks for the report. Looks like a lot of progress is being made. Welcome Arthur to our wacky world and thanks a ton for the front suspension. I have found almost all the parts for the pedal assembly, missing a couple of nuts and screws, but nothing hard to replace. I'll try to get it boxed and shipped this week. Jim, I included the two master cylinders and the brake booster but don't know if they're any good. Thanks to Jim and some of the others who are close enough to join in on the Roadmaster weekends the project is coming together fine, just wish I could be there. I'm going to try and schedule at least one trip to the hills of Kentucky this year and help.


castlesid
Kevin Jackson
Sidcup UK
(361 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2007 10:38AM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB GT Rover V8 4.35L

Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: castlesid
Date: January 31, 2008 12:04PM

Jim,

Good to hear you are making progress and that you have acquired a more than half decent front suspension for the project.

I've not been doing too much recently as I had a bit of poor health, most of the bits for my new 4.35 engine are in place and I'm just waiting for the pistons to be shipped by Summit, should be on their way in a couple of days,once they arrive I can get the internals balanced properly. I do have a couple of queries regarding the Buick 300 heads,see seperate post,and wonder.I think it was Dale Spooner who was doing your heads,could help with a bit of info.

Regards,

Kevin Jackson.


accobraman50
Arthur Mitchell
Chicago
(43 posts)

Registered:
01/27/2008 08:14PM

Main British Car:
1965 Butler Racing AC Cobra replica 350 SBC

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: accobraman50
Date: February 01, 2008 01:35PM

Is anyone heading through or near Chicago, and then heading to or near the home of the Roadmaster Project? I have a complete MGB suspension that has 11" vented disk brakes, New steering, rebuilt everything + a few other small parts that I would like to donate to the project.

If you can help transport the items that would be great!

Thanks,

Arthur


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 01, 2008 08:03PM

Thanks for posting that Arthur. I've been a little distracted lately (wind damage and such).

Guys, can someone step up and help with this? I know we can do it, just a question of who, when and how. Arthur, if nobody else can do it maybe I can make the trip at some point.

Kevin, hope you're feeling better. On those 300 heads, you are correct about Dale. In fact I need to call him asap. I'll take a look at your other post.

Jim



DBW
Dennis Williams

(13 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 08:50PM

Main British Car:


Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: DBW
Date: February 03, 2008 06:45PM

Jim use super glue to close the cuts in your fingers, by the time it wears off the cuts are healed. I have been doing this for years

and carry it in my pocket during the winter months. This was used during the Vietnam war to temporary stop bleeding. Once you

put it on, sometimes two or three layers the throbbing stops in about one minute. You can work with out any discomfort what

so ever. It doesn't burn it just stinks,wash your hands first because you will glue the dirt under and it makes you hands look

bad. My hands in the winter time feel just like 60 grit sand paper.

Denny


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 03, 2008 11:30PM

Thanks Denny, that's a great tip. Works real good too. Have you found that any particular type or brand is best? My hands get in terrible shape in the cold months and hand lotion just doesn't get the job done. Gets to where I just have to quit working on anything at all and wait. I try to pace myself, but ultimately the end result is the same. I only hope it never spreads to the summertime.

Arthur, I wonder if it might be practical for us to split the difference? If you could get the parts part way south I could probably meet you to pick them up without too much trouble.

I mentioned wind damage, the wind has disabled my air compressor temporarily, something of a handicap as I use it a lot. So how does the wind disable an air compressor? Simply by blowing over the carport from whose rafters it is supported, severing the air and power lines and dumping the crankcase oil in the process. With some help I got the carport back to it's original position. Luckily there was no structural damage, just some bent and torn tin. But it will take me some time to fix the line that carries the air to the shop and the power conduit, to say nothing of re-mounting the compressor itself and making sure it all still works correctly. Had it staked down with seven 3ft rebar stakes, a 200+lb outboard suspended from the rafters and the compressor also but the wind just picked it up and flipped it like it was a toy. Guess I should have concentrated a bit more on getting a concrete slab poured for it which would hold it down. My mistake. Well, winter will be over soon and I can start putting things in order.

I'll try to call Dale tomorrow to see what he thinks of the 455.

Jim


V6 Midget
Bill Young
Kansas City, MO
(1337 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 09:23AM

Main British Car:
'73 MG Midget V6 , '59 MGA I6 2.8 GM, 4.0 Jeep

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: V6 Midget
Date: February 04, 2008 09:39AM

Jim, sorry to hear about the damage. The pedal assembly should arrive today via UPS. I couldn't find the nuts that held the booster to the bracket or the ones for the master cylinders. Also one of the clevis pins is missing. Sorry, I'll look for this stuff, but I didn't think any of it would be a show stopper so I shipped the unit without.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 04, 2008 05:34PM

It's just an inconvenience Bill, I'll have things pretty muh back to normal as soon as we have a week's worth of nice weather. Can't hardly do otherwise. In the meantime there's plenty to do.

Don't worry about the small hardware. I've got a bunch of that stuff. I'll be watching for the package.

Jim


accobraman50
Arthur Mitchell
Chicago
(43 posts)

Registered:
01/27/2008 08:14PM

Main British Car:
1965 Butler Racing AC Cobra replica 350 SBC

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: accobraman50
Date: February 06, 2008 12:15PM

Hi Jim,

With regard to the front suspension, If no one is passing through, or near Chicago in the near future. Where South would be a good meeting place for the hand-over?

Sorry to hear of your property damage. I hope you are up and running soon. I know how inconvenient property damage can be. Two years ago an 8" Fire hydrant was accidently opened up by a pipe fitter. High pressure water blew a hole through the wall and my shop was blasted with water for about an hour. Still recovering from it.

I don't know what the deal is with your hands. Chapped? I find that too much exposure to industrial/automotive fluids plays havoc with mine. Also, correct humidity levels in your home/workplace during winter is essential. When I moved here from sunny Australia, I too had skin dryness problems for years, until I found only two things that work; Lubriderm skin cream & Carmex. Work gloves too. I guess that's three things.

This forum is starting to look like a health clinic.

Regards,

Arthur


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 09, 2008 04:50PM

Yeah, sorry for the hijack, but I'll try your recommendations Arthur.

Took me a couple days but I finally got the chance to look at the map. Looks like right at 300 miles with the halfway point being where I-865 meets I-65 north of Indianapolis. I haven't traveled that route enough to remember what's there but I think it's pretty urban, there's an exit at Rt.-334 (Kingsbury Way) just north of Royalton, perhaps that would be a good place. Could anyone familiar with north Indy make a suggestion?

When would be a good time for you? My schedule is pretty flexible except for Roadmaster Weekend which is the 23/24th so let me know what works for you.

I couldn't imagine what it would be like to have your shop blasted by a water main! Mine gets a little wet sometimes and it's very irritating but nothing like what that would do. I'd say that qualifies as a genuine disaster.

Jim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 10, 2008 08:44PM

Arthur, Jack Renaud had a good idea he emailed me about, (you probably met Jack up at Ted's) we could meet at the Indy Speedway Hall of Fame Museum which is on the north side of Indy if you're interested. I don't know if you've been there or not, but I haven't even though I've been to the Speedway a couple of times for the 500. It's open 9-5, 7 days a week. Let me know if you like that idea, seems a lot better than a truck stop parking lot or something. Admission is 3 bucks.

[www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com]

Jim


accobraman50
Arthur Mitchell
Chicago
(43 posts)

Registered:
01/27/2008 08:14PM

Main British Car:
1965 Butler Racing AC Cobra replica 350 SBC

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: accobraman50
Date: February 10, 2008 10:45PM

Jim, Sounds like a firm plan is in the making. I have been to the Speedway Museum and I would enjoy seeing it again. Now we have to pick the day.

I'm pretty flexible too. I'm working on the Cobra full time Monday to Saturday until it's complete, a break would be fine at anytime. I would prefer a week day. Pick some days that work for you.

Arthur



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2008 11:23PM by accobraman50.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 12, 2008 11:18AM

Arthur,

Would Friday work for you? If not, perhaps Saturday. Say perhaps around Noon?

Jim


accobraman50
Arthur Mitchell
Chicago
(43 posts)

Registered:
01/27/2008 08:14PM

Main British Car:
1965 Butler Racing AC Cobra replica 350 SBC

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: accobraman50
Date: February 12, 2008 12:02PM

Jim, This Friday will be fine. I'll see you at Noon. Email me me your cell phone number.

Arthur


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5821 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 12, 2008 03:52PM

Arthur and I will meet Friday at noon in Indy to effect the transport of the front crossmember. Anyone else who would like to join us, perhaps for lunch and a tour of the museum is quite welcome, the more the merrier.

I've also filed our annual report with the secretary of state, and I covered the filing fee so there's no cost to the Society. Steve is working with the bank and with his tax person to square away the other necessary details and no doubt will fill us in on that as needed.

Then of course there's Roadmaster Weekend coming up in a week and a half. Please let me know if you plan to be here. Steve has expressed a desire to come in March and things are warming up for the spring efforts. We need to get cracking on the sill repairs and fit up the front end, start cutting metal for the IRS and get rubber under the car. I talked to Dale Spooner and he'll give me a report on the engine in a few days, we're going to see if it's feasible to re-ring the pistons, so we could have an operational engine in time for the meet. I'm hoping rings, bearings and seals/gaskets will put us there at minimal cost. Once I get the sponsor promo sheet finished I'll get back in the hunt for heads and paint as well but I may be a few more weeks doing that as I'll do a better job once the weather improves a bit.

Jim


Citron
Stephen DeGroat
Lugoff, SC
(365 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 09:43PM

Main British Car:
1970 MGBGT V6, 7004R, AC, matching trailer 3.1 liter

Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: Citron
Date: February 13, 2008 05:25PM

Jim,
Maybe I can get the engine on my way up, if it is ready. It could work as the reverse of bringing it down. Let me know and I'll talk to Carl about meeting him and getting it.

steve


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3782 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: MGB Roadmaster
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: February 13, 2008 06:12PM

Steve,

I'll be surprised if it is ready to go that quickly.
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