MG Sports Cars

Hello all, first post here. I've been checking out this website since it started. Should've joined the forums sooner. :)

Anyhoo, I once turned to the dark side years ago with a SBF powered GT6. Mr. Williams now owns it and it's in the gallery. He's done a good job with the continuation of the car.

After a few years hiatus I'm now ready to dive into the dark side with my '67 BGT.

I just purchased a running 1987 5.0 with T5 out of a parts car last week, and already have the running gear pulled out of my GT. Before I start cutting on anything, I'm wanting to "shrink" this 5.0/302 as much as possible. To help everyone understand what I'm trying to do, I'll list the mods I've already thought of...

Ford Racing short water pump
Ford Racing mini starter
Remote oil filter kit (duh) :)
Converting to carburetor for weight, simplicity and room savings (plus personal preference)
Going with early style timing chain cover to make room for older style V-belt harmonic balancer/pulleys
Am willing to shave off excessive casting, or accessory blocks on engine to make it fit better.

Essentially I'm wanting to get the engine as compact as possible so I don't have to cut as much into the car.

What I need to know is which V-belt harmonic balancer is smallest and will work with the 5.0 engine? Will it work with the Ford Racing water pump? I'm not worried about the alternator, that thing can be moved quite a bit with offset brackets, etc.

Thanks for any assistance.

-Chris Salisbury
Hutto,TX







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 05:38PM by CJ Steak.

I like the stance of the car.

Thanks Jason.

That's about as low as you can go on a street driven MG. It's so low, it's actually taken some of the fun out of blasting down unknown country roads. I find myself driving under the speed limit on unknown roads.

Looks killer, but it can be a drag unless you're on perfectly smooth roads. In fact, this car has been known to scratch the crest in the middle of a worn road. I have less than 2" ground clearance between the small glass pack under the floor board.

Not sure what I'm going to do when I have a V8 in it. May have to lift it back up... but I really like the stance as it is. It'll be a tough decision.

CJ, I'm certainly no expert, and hopefully others will chime in. Fords are not like Chevy 350's where almost everything is interchangable through the years, before you start changing balancers, you need to determine if you have a 28 oz. or a 56 oz. motor. HO's even have a different firing order. "P"

Hi Paul,

My engine is a 1987 H.O. out of a Mustang, so it should have the 50 oz balancer as well as different firing order. Will confirm 100% before I spend any money. though.

I know someone out there must make a single V belt balancer for the 50 oz motors though. And one that will work with a short water pump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 08:34PM by CJ Steak.

First, you can't use an early cover with the short water pump; second, Early (carburated engine) balancer had a different balancing weight (28 0z) compared to your '87 engine (50 oz). If you are interested in shortening the front of the engine, you can either buy a kit from Summit or use the '94-'95 Mustang front set up.

You can also purchase aftermarket pulley adapters to suit your needs. You may want to contact Pete Mantell of "Mantell Motorsport", just look under the contact tab and vendors. Pete offers everything (parts) that you may need and is very friendly to seek advice from.

Good Luck

Jacques - Do you know of a way I can run a V belt on a 5.0? Summit is showing serpentine kits from March.

I chose to use the 5.0 due to the benefits of having a roller motor, however I don't want the motor to look like an 80's version of the small block Ford. My goal is to make the car look like it was converted back in the 60's. The motor needs to be simple in appearance and needs to run a single V-belt. The car will be used for road racing (eventually) and simplicity is the key factor here. No A/C, Heat, or other creature comforts. I also don't like how much the serpentine setup weighs with the addition of bracketry and tensioner. Sounds dumb, but I'm really trying to keep this car simple and light.

I can always have some pulleys made up by a machinist as a last resort.

I'll try contacting Pete in a bit.

You can get everything you need to shorten the front of your engine at Mustangs Plus. Changover 50oz. imbalance damper (3-bolt) to fit your motor is $269 and is specifically made to allow you to use v-belt pulleys. You can also get a similar damper at Speedway Motors in either a 3-bolt or 4-bolt style, either 28oz. or 50oz. imbalance. Correct pulleys are also available at Mustangs Plus. This is pretty common set up for early Fords where someone wants to change out their 289 for a 302 and keep the early model appearance. Link to MP part is: [www.mustangsplus.com]

Other good sources for late-to-early conversion parts are Mustangs Unlimited and CJ's Pony Parts.

As for using an early model timing cover (with dip stick hole) and a short pump, that is is exactly the set-up I've run on my last two Ford mills. You just need to be sure you use a backing plate on the water pump, otherwise, it's a bolt on.

Thanks David, that's EXACTLY what I was looking for!

-Chris

BTW, as far as weight is concerned, a well built 302 and accompanying T-5 using light weight parts as much as possible is going to come in about 30-35 pounds heavier than the iron 4-banger and gearbox that come out. My dry sump motor uses aluminum heads, alloy intake, mini starter, race alternator, lightweight rods/pistons, aluminum flywheel, alloy everything except the block comes in at 32 pounds over stock (including the transmission). That includes giving some weight back for the oil and power steering pumps, associated plumbing parts, drive spindle and extra pulleys.

This is the link to the damper you need.
[www.professional-products.com]

Hey Chris, I really like how your car sits. What suspension are you running? Sorry I don't have much input except to say aluminum heads although not any more compact, would bring the weight of your 5.0 down significantly. If you really want to spend some money a dart aluminum block would make it that much better.. but thats some serious money

I believe using the motorsport short water pump, v belts, and shaving off one of the lower mounting bosses on the block will be as far as you can go. Also using a low profile intake will help with hood clearance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 10:31AM by pszlamas.

David, that's what I was hoping to hear in the weight department. I think I can manage 32 pounds over stock. Heck, this car had A/C and a bunch of other useless weight under the hood. The A/C compressor and bracket weighed in at 75 pounds. Add in the condenser and the other plumbing and it was a touch over 100 pounds. It was half way to having an MGC and the car handled horribly. Removing that 100 pounds off the nose was pretty noticeable. I'm not sure what my weight ratio is right now, but I've made the car as light as possible in the front with the 1800 motor. I know that it used to oversteer if you were really running it hard, now it understeers a little bit. Of course I have more tweaking and tuning to do.

Jacques - Thanks for the link! I'll definitely put it on my list of parts to consider.

Robert - my car is pretty basic in the suspension department. It's got Moss 1.5" uprated lowering springs from Moss for the rubber bumper cars. The rears are lowered with their 1" lowering kit, and the rear springs were from a parts car that had half the miles of this one. I believe those springs were lowering springs as well. I had no idea at the time, but with the new rear springs and the blocks, it dropped the car over 2 inches.

I love the stance of the car but it's pretty low for back roads driving. My glasspack muffler under the driver's floorboard is absolutely squashed flat on the bottom. It's not uncommon to see sparks fly out the back on a dark night. Luckily the muffler takes all the beating. Nothing else on the car has rubbed, so I'm not too concerned about a 30 dollar muffler. I lovingly call it my skid plate. The Dart aluminum block is on my wish list... my VERY distant wish list. :) Would love to build a full aluminum SBF. Just sounds so right. Let me know if you need the part numbers on springs and I'll dig 'em up for ya.

Pete, thanks for the further advice. And I agree with you, we're fairly limited when it comes to shrinking this motor, but I've seen so many nice conversions on this site over the years, I'm not overly concerned about it anymore.

Paul Schill's '71 B is kind of my motivation for the engine mounting and placement.

[www.britishv8.org]

I think shifter location is going to be my cornerstone for engine placement. Sounds goofy, but I want the shifter to come out in the stock location. Originally I wanted the engine as far back as possible. All the way into the firewall like Dr. Snivelly's car in the photo page. I don't want to mess with the transmission tunnel and firewall to that extent though. I think the car will be fine mounting the engine where most everyone else mounts theirs.

David, that's what I was hoping to hear in the weight department. I think I can manage 32 pounds over stock. Heck, this car had A/C and a bunch of other useless weight under the hood. The A/C compressor and bracket weighed in at 75 pounds. Add in the condenser and the other plumbing and it was a touch over 100 pounds. It was half way to having an MGC and the car handled horribly. Removing that 100 pounds off the nose was pretty noticeable. I'm not sure what my weight ratio is right now, but I've made the car as light as possible in the front with the 1800 motor. I know that it used to oversteer if you were really running it hard, now it understeers a little bit. Of course I have more tweaking and tuning to do.

Jacques - Thanks for the link! I'll definitely put it on my list of parts to consider.

Robert - my car is pretty basic in the suspension department. It's got Moss 1.5" uprated lowering springs from Moss for the rubber bumper cars. The rears are lowered with their 1" lowering kit, and the rear springs were from a parts car that had half the miles of this one. I believe those springs were lowering springs as well. I had no idea at the time, but with the new rear springs and the blocks, it dropped the car over 2 inches.

I love the stance of the car but it's pretty low for back roads driving. My glasspack muffler under the driver's floorboard is absolutely squashed flat on the bottom. It's not uncommon to see sparks fly out the back on a dark night. Luckily the muffler takes all the beating. Nothing else on the car has rubbed, so I'm not too concerned about a 30 dollar muffler. I lovingly call it my skid plate. The Dart aluminum block is on my wish list... my VERY distant wish list. :) Would love to build a full aluminum SBF. Just sounds so right. Let me know if you need the part numbers on springs and I'll dig 'em up for ya.

Pete, thanks for the further advice. And I agree with you, we're fairly limited when it comes to shrinking this motor, but I've seen so many nice conversions on this site over the years, I'm not overly concerned about it anymore.

Paul Schill's '71 B is kind of my motivation for the engine mounting and placement.

[www.britishv8.org]

I think shifter location is going to be my cornerstone for engine placement. Sounds goofy, but I want the shifter to come out in the stock location. Originally I wanted the engine as far back as possible. All the way into the firewall like Dr. Snivelly's car in the photo page. I don't want to mess with the transmission tunnel and firewall to that extent though. I think the car will be fine mounting the engine where most everyone else mounts theirs.

Chris,

Don't get too worked up over the shifter location as it is reasonably easy to reposition it using a simple link system (had to do this on a Cobra project where I wanted the 289-style shifter location, moved it about 4" forward of stock position) or, if the difference isn't too great, it's easy to offset the existing shift lever. Using the early model (pre-94) 302 bell housing will also help as it is shorter than the later models. That will, however, mean you have to use the matching T-5 or if you step up to newer model Tremec 5-speeds they have a provision for several shift locations.

I think the good news with all of this is that your current suspension set-up should handle the weight of the new motor and transmission without any noticeable differences. Rear wind-up with the increased power is going to be another matter as is the durability of the current rear end if you're going to be driving the car hard. Ted at Fast Cars has a real nice Ford 8.8 unit that he can set up however you like. Personally, I got lucky on the Internet and found a nice Quaiffe unit out of race car that was in good shape at a very attractive price. So, I'm going to give the stock rear end a go (not the most ideal gear set-up for my motor) and run it 'til it goes boom. If you go with the stock MG rear end, consider adding anti-tramp bars (if you're not already running them). They're reasonably inexpensive and will help control the wind-up.

David

David,

I think I may be in luck in the shifter department. I got a complete, running/driving 5.0/T5 out of an '87 Mustang GT. It does have the shorter bell housing. I might have slightly more wiggle room than I was thinking (I hope). I also failed to mention that I'll be cutting/welding on an original MGB shifter so it looks stock. I really don't want people to know there's something different about the car until it starts. Stock interior/exterior is high on my list in way of goals, but if some things can't be helped without going over board, so be it.

I grenaded a stock MGB diff with the 1800 motor. Not sure how long this "new" diff is going to last with the 5.0. I'm already tracking down an Explorer 8.8 and someone to narrow it for me.

Here's some pics of the carnage. This is with a 180k mile original '67 Salisbury axle. The "new" axle has less than half the miles and seems to be in great shape.









"New" Axle:



After blasting and repaint/reseal:



For Robert - New springs vs. original spring comparison:

You may want to give Ted at Fast Cars a call on the rear end. You may find by the time you narrow the Explorer 8.8, shorten the axles, deal with the brakes, change the mounting points, etc. that you'd be in about the same place money-wise (not to mention the time) as buying a ready-to-bolt-in unit from Ted. It would be the way I'd go if I hadn't run across the Quaiffe (and may still depending on how long the MG unit lasts). The other folks you may want to hook up with are Forte's Parts and/or North Race cars. Both cater to the Cobra kit car crowd and have the capability (and willingness) to build almost any rear end you can dream up. Don't want to take business away from a forum vendor but there are options out there.

Quote:

You may want to give Ted at Fast Cars a call on the rear end

Ted likes the Ford 8" axle - he's not a believer in the extra weight of the 8.8 for a MGB conversion.
D&D have an off the shelf GM 7.5" to fit the MGB. Specify your ratio, brake groups, w/ or w/o LSD.
Or, as I did, bought my axle locally and then made a trip to Moser Eng'g in Portland, In. Within 5 hours, I had the housing shortened, axles shortened and resplined and the stud pattern converted to 4x4.5" and I was on my way home.
....if you're on a budget, get the engine installed and running and then replace the axle the following year - if you don't beat on the axle too much, it should hold up for a while. I believe there are some conversions out there that have the 302 and original MG axle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 10:20PM by ex-tyke.

Blew the spider gears out I see. That's the weak spot to be sure. I ran about 300 hp through one for quite some time before it got noisy. The ring and pinion just weren't quite up to it.

The 8" is a good axle. But it is just 1/8" larger than the stock ring gear. It has a lower pinion and a wider ring gear however. Best of all it is light. The 8.8 is big. And heavy.

JB