MG Sports Cars

Hi,

I am currently restoring an MGB GT 1966. I would like to install an LS1.Having used this engine on a previous project with excellent results in both power and reliability.
I looked at some photos posted on “British V8” web site.

A few questions:

1. It looks as if the inner wings and bulkhead is unchanged is this correct.
2. What age is the body shell Is it a three syncro transmission tunnel or the wide later tunnel
3. What transmission was used? – I was thinking of the T5 due to the restrictions in the tunnel
4. The car is fitted with a “Fast” front cross member - how is this on the road?

Regards

Neil

Were you looking at Keith Tanner's car or a different one? His is a '72 so wider tunnel & uses a T56. Pics I've seen of his don't show the front cross member so not sure he used FastCars IFS.

As I recall, Keith discarded the MGB crossmember in lieu of his own structure and a Miata-based custom front suspension.

How is the Fast Cars suspension on the road? Regardless of what engine is installed, the Fast Cars suspension will perform pretty much the same. Excellent precision and ride quality. Significantly lower steering effort than stock, even with greatly oversize tires and track width. More information here: [www.britishv8.org] and here: [www.britishv8.org]

I've heard of so many MGB LS1 conversions, but so far I haven't received a How It Was Done submission...

Have any of them been actually finished? We haven't had one at the annual meet yet that I can recall.

JB

Chris Longo in Pittsburg completed his last year (gt). I'll see if I can get him to submit some details

I have not heard from Chris, but here are a couple of pics I found.

There are a number of threads on this site and others on the LS1, the main concern in the transmission tunnel. The smallest manual I transmission can find is the Ford T5 from a Cosworth Sierra. But the size and width of the belhousing LS1 could cause problems. The aim of the project is to keep the car as stock as possible and changes need to be reversible. – This could be a pipe dream.
I tried to post photos using the fink at the bottom of the page. It didn’t work any guidance would be appreciated.
The floors, chassis rail and roll cage is finished not sure on the Sebring arches. This is in keeping with the ability to reverse any of the work.
Neil

Why do you want it reversible?

This is not advice, just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree with me. Having put a V8 in a chrome bumper MG, and it wasn’t even a LS1, I’d have to say the chance of reverting back to original is at best doubtful; there are just way too many modifications necessary to make it work and though I’m not saying it couldn’t be patched back together, the firewall would probably have to be replaced entirely. Keep in mind the Chevy engine is 2” wider than a Ford. I’m also not sure the cost, and man-hours of reversing the modifications would result is a higher value car.

These cars are not irreplaceable classics with only a few treasured examples existing in the world. The fact the MGB's are relatively plentiful and inexpensive is what makes them such good candidates for doing these engine swaps. If you have a car that has special meaning to you in some way, keep it stock and preserve the memories and buy another car to do the swap with. Getting a V8 engine in an MGB requires cutting if you are going to do it right ie: half the engine is not sticking out of the hood and the car does not handle miserably. My car has less than 300 lbs of original MG metal remaining and of the remaining panels there is not a single one that has not been modified. Mine is probably an extreme example but go through the gallery of MGB's and see what others have done to make a good swap.

As I recall, the Sierra 5-speed is a T9 - not a T5 - and the torque rating is about half what you'll want for an LS1.

I've never understood why people want changes to be reversible... it shows a shortage of confidence. If the modification are good, no one will ever want to reverse them! That said, just about anything you can do to an MGB can be put back to original since all the parts are available brand new except the skinny first generation ("non-synchro") transmission tunnel, which the GT in question doesn't have, and even those tunnels can be found in good used condition. Is it about the money? Anyone who's trying to make money by fixing up MGBs should probably have their head examined. If you're not doing it for fun, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

Curtis, thanks for your comments. – Certainly not in it for the money. We have a superb historic rally net work in the UK. This was my basis for the comments about the ability to reverse any work. I don’t want to rule eligibility for some events in the long term. I think the answer is to run a four cylinder 16 Valve engine as opposed to the V8.

The Ford T5 (N5) via T9
The Borg Warner T5 is used on the Cosworth Sierra and also Mustang . There are two versions a T5 the Mustang being the stronger.
The T9 is used in the Ford Sierra and Capri etc and your correct its only good for 150bhp. I have seen the conversion on the standard 1800cc B engine.
Thanks Neil

In the UK a good 4 cylinder choice might be the Rover T16 turbo engine. 200 bhp as standard on the later ones. 180 bhp before that. As it is a desendant of the B series I think you can put a B series back plate on the block and use your original gear box!!! A guy did this with a 3 syncro box. You can improve the laygear/shaft life in the 4 sync by modifying it to take more bearings.
However, an LT77 could be used with minor tunnel mods and the rwd bell housing from an SD1 Rover 2000, a 5 speed O series Sherpa van, Rover M16/T16 powered Morgan Plus 4 or the short lived T16 powered LR Discovery. None of which grow on trees but they come up on ebay from time to time.
If you want to keep the heater you would have to mirror the inlet manifold.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2011 06:48AM by djw090.

Nearing completion (8 months) of my 302/T5 conversion into my '67 GT... I don't know why anyone would want to put an LS1 in one of these cars. I'm not talking about power or reliability... just the act of physically cramming one in there! I can understand not being a Ford guy and wanting to put a Chevy motor in your car... but geez... just doing it would almost make someone want to convert! :)

In way of reversing the modifications... hey, anything is possible, but you won't. Nobody in the history of V8 MGB's has every converted their car back to stock. I think thats pretty safe to say.

Good luck with your project. ESPECIALLY if you decide to go LS1...

-Chris

What Chris said. Personally I don't know why anyone would want to put a SBF in their car when a 300 Buick is so much easier. No cutting the frame, no cutting the crossmember, all off the shelf parts. And if you want to can go back easily.

JB

Jim,

Mainly so I wouldn't have to have a blower sticking out of my hood to make a lot of power. :)

Plus the expense of making decent power with a 215. I've got friends with these engines in their cars. The money they have in their engines is insane. The one with the stroker especially.

You got me beat on the fitment though! Can't beat a 215 for cramming into small British cars. The weight is also a very big plus.

Happy motoring, I like your car a lot.

-Chris

Thanks Chris, but I've moved beyond the 215 I'm afraid. Current mill is a 350 ci 340 Buick, blown, injected and intercooled. Still tidying up the details. But more to the point, a 300 Buick block gives plenty of power with no fitment issues and only a mild weight penalty. It can be stroked out to 350 using a stock crank with the mains cut down, and extremely good heads are available. Cost a bit more of course, as you mentioned, but worth it in my opinion. If we were that cost conscious we wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

As a sterling example, Mike Moore has run a 300 Buick in his car since before the Champaign V8 meet (ten years or so). I've ridden in his car and can assure you that it is a powerhouse. Moreover, it is a characteristic of the Buick engines that they produce much higher than average torque. This is crucial for any street driven car, as the old quote says, horsepower sells cars but torque wins races.

JB

I agree Jim, anybody who doubts that torque makes the world go around should try a big block.

Good idea Paul... Hey, why not put a big block in an MGB ?? Torque = LOL. roverman.

The model A (ford) purists bemoan the cutting up /modifying of any model A cars, funny thing tho,, that the well done street rodded model A's are worth more than restored stock ones except in the case of the FEW really rare ones, maybe in England because there are fewer cars there there is a bigger issue but I don't believe so here.
Dave Craddock