MG Sports Cars

Jason, I left you a private message. BCC is located near Dayton Ohio, in Kettering.

Dann



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 11:30PM by kill r b.

Jason, Andy Bradley of [www.bradleyrestoration.com] has done automatic conversions using the 700 4R in MGB's which are the same size as the 200R. His is the West Coast Distributor for BCC conversion kits and accessories.
Dann



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 11:46PM by kill r b.

Jim
I am aware of some of these recent refinements Bill has advertised. As I pointed out above, I take my hat off to Bill and other poineers (e.g. Damm Wade) in this area.
Nonetheless I think it is worthwhile to point out that Bill's CCE is not the only game in town for making a BV6 (see British Car conversions, for example. British Car Conversions has a proven history of high quality supplies and expertise). They offer a wide range of well worked out conversion parts. BMC Autos offers a lot of convenient bits for finishing the job, too.
I also wanted to point out that you need not necessarily buy a kit at all. When you buy a kit, you pay a lot of money for not much stuff. These days, plans are readily available on the internet for people to make their own parts (or improve upon), and there is more expertise available for free via the forums than any vendor now has. In this case there are plenty of good (and sometimes better) and less expensive ways to go than vendors recommend or try to sway people toward.
I am not saying the vendors do this with malice or just profit as a motive, but rather they are much less constrained when spending someone else's money. The vendors have the mindset of pioneers, not the average hobbyist who wants a converted car but has some economic constraints. The forum here and at mgexperience.net are great sources of information to help the folks considering a conversion without wasting a lot of money.

Scot, thanks for the plug, the pat on the back, second top billing and the devastation of my name but it makes me wonder where anyone would have gotten any conversion information if it hadn't been for the "pioneers" in the first place. Sure there are a lot of individuals who may do a few extraordinary conversions but they don't always post it and they aren't 60V6 conversions. There are vendors who deal with large V8 engines and don't concern themselves with smaller conversions because that's who they are. Most are in a spin off club or organization that recognize extreme conversions. You have an animosity to this type of conversion and you are very oratorally challenged on the subject and always will be.

I was curious when and where did you get your first conversion information? The conversion vendors did not start posting until after 2001. If I recall correctly Brian Mc. and I collaborated by email about my conversion efforts before we joined the MGB Experience forum. Brian joined first, then me, then Bill G. Not necessarily as members but as participants. If I recall you did a car in 2004 or 2006. Do you suppose that no one would be posting questions on a forum if there was no one involved in MGB conversions originally? I cannot express my disappointment in you for the article that obviously leads people to believe they could do a conversion without the information that preceded their purchase of an MGB for the intention of converting it. You got your information from the forums. Wasn't it you who sat in my office and discussed conversions on a few occasions? Wasn't it you who purchased the first drive shaft adapter because it was less then a drive shaft? You singularly did pioneer a fuel injection set up for a 4 cylinder which is commendable but you also learned from other sources how to use the 60V6 in an MGB. Am I wrong or right? You pioneered nothing in the conversion that I know of. The standard 3 vendors are still here struggling as usual to provide a service and their only reward is an occasional sale. Why kill them for that? Each and every person who volunteered information in the forums should be thanked for their efforts including yourself. Never assume that if you offer up something on the cheap it would be accepted without question. The bottom line is the conversion vendors brought all of the information to the forums with them and unselfishly spread it around, if they hadn't of done that there would have not been gentlemen like yourself taking the step toward a 60V6 conversion. Your efforts are commendable but your lack of refinements lack imagination but that's OK because you are satisfied with that. Am I disappointed with you?...yes. Are we still friends...absolutely.

Dann not DAMM



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 09:27AM by kill r b.

Dann,
I guess my post was poorly written, for by no means did I want to infer that you would steer people toward spending more money or time than needed to get a cool ride, or suggest that anything you or BCC provided was less than excellent quality and value. It must come as a shock to you that not all vendors are as sensitive to quality and value as you are, nor as honest about cost of the project when done one way or another. For reasons of enthusiasm and lack of retrospection, some vendors encourage adoption of needlessly expensive or impractical routes and items. It's not an action of malice-just overactive enthusiasm.

.
I had started considering a conversion when I bought an SD1 a VERY long time ago (20 yrs or so). I sought an inexpensive and reasonable way to make a nice, reliable peppy daily driver based on an MGB. I was about to start that project (after doing a few spit 6 projects, restoring several MGB's, converting many Olds and Caddies with GM diesels to gas cars, and after making a few convertibles out of XKE 2+2's and XJS's) and so I spent a day with Glenn Towery down in Cheswold, De. to get some more detailed info on the project. . Glenn did me the favor of telling me honestly about the costs and strategies that were the essence of the route at that time. I decided that day to abandon that route because of the expense, crowded engine bay and reliance on the British stuff at the time. It wasn't for me.

I eventually heard that a few people had put a common GM motor (60 degree V6) in a B (without the usual butcher's approaches), and became interested in trying that route. I discovered the MGE site, started reading, getting advice and buying stuff for the conversion. As it happened, I bought a camaro donor car (a 3.1 with sitck) for the projec, while at the same time a friend of mine bought a 2.8 S10 with stick for me for the same project( not knowing I got the Camaro). I bought a B with no motor, then I studied both drivetrains together and apart I found I could use the s10 bellhousing, clutch, etc., with the camaro motor and camaro T5. I had been led to believe that I needed an HTOB for the drivetrain, but the hardware showed me that that was untrue. I subsequently found that the interchangability and intermixing of parts was known in a lot of hobbyist circles, including the vendor who had me buy the HTOB. The cost was over $200 for a poorer way to actuate the clutch than I already had in hand. I similarly found that a Mustang radiator worked very nicely( from the MGE forum-not from a vendor), which saved me another few hundred dollars from getting any of the several much more expensive options offered to me by vendors. I made a simple bracket setup so there was no big expense for billet pulleys.( I see no reason to throw out stuff that is paid for and works well for something else, just because a vendor touts how good it is.)

After these experiences I decided to post the experiences I've had, the plans of parts I've developed and use, and information I find so that others can benefit from my experience, or at least have another option to consider.

I sincerely apologise if I offended you in any way. I respect you greatly as a pioneer with vision and perveyor of high quality goods, and I hope to keep you as a friend.

Scot, thank you for a courteous reply. I know you as a gentleman and I know we both value our friendship with each other. Because I don't agree with some of your methods doesn't mean I don't see you as an accomplished person. I think you are correct in saying that I over extend myself when I engineer new products. This is me and you are one of the few people who respect that because we have always had a great deal in common. Our thought processes are not much different, I just take mine to a very high level of developmental application. You can cut it off while I get obsessed. I think it is a fault to be like me. I would always hope to find a guy like me if I needed assistance. Maybe I am a pain in the a$$ to some but I never been called out for being anything but honest. None of our products never ever had a problem in any fashion. I can say that to anybody and challenge them over it. A lot of new doin's is happenin' since our move into the new shop and you know you are always welcome to visit anytime.

After reading my thread to you does seem a bit harsh but it's hard to convey a sneaky smile in a sentence. Never worry about your status with me, I'm still the same old temperamental old goat I always was. The friends I have understand me and I understand them. I don't have a whole lot of friends but I would trust my life with most of them and vice versa. The last I heard from you, you had a big homebuilding project going on. Did you ever get it the way you wanted?

BTW, did you know that the first Killer B was produced in 1992? This makes me the guru of the 60V6 swap set and an honor I cherish. I was there in the conversion business long before big Bill and I have a small plate on that car autographed by Mr. Costello himself complimenting the conversion that says "Great job Mike and Dann" and then his handwritten signature. Well that was a great inspiration to me and I always followed Costello's praise by producing the best products possible. Mr. Mike Maloney was the purchaser of that vehicle in the year 1999 I believe and he loved it and drove it for a quite few years. He always said he really liked the car so much he used to take it out and run it hard to get his "fix". Mike is a collector/distributor, if you will, of unusual cars and he exchanges rides on occasion just to purchase another interesting ride. Mike sold it to a gentleman in the Midwest I believe and occasionally I get an email from him telling me that "my car" is the most delightful car he has ever owned. So much for bragging but now it's a historical fact that the first 60V6 conversion known nationwide was the blue Killer B. I still have a photo of the signed plate hanging in my office. New, better and great things are brewing in the works at the new shop. It's great to have something fill in my life again.

Dann

Scott, glad that you can your own.

I started CCE in 2000, did my first V6 2.8 Ford in 1979 and a V8 in 1973 215 with a 3 speed manual trans in a 68 GT LOL it came from a Buick Skylark.
First GM 60 degree V6 in 1998 for a friend and that is what started CCE. I ma not a Guru at anything, I will become one when I stropped learning.

Those who do their own conversion parts got the ideas from what Dann calls vendors. The big one that everyone does when they do their own mounts is the use of the cross member bolts to mount the engine, the first was CCE which now is commonly used by everyone.
I know of a gentleman here in Ca. who tried to copy Dann's blue GT, he finally gave up. He would have never started the conversion if he had not seen Dann's GT in one of his travels and that is a good thing.

BTW the blue GT, Mike sold it to a gentleman here in Ca who lived in Canoga Park or Thousand Oaks, which is about 10 miles from me. The last time I saw the car was at our car show about 4 years ago. I am sure it still around, but a no show at the car shows or car events.

Scot you may claim that the kits cost to much for what you get, there is a cost involve and yes a profit my is small since I do not have a big overhead. Our products are well design and finish as if they are going to be shown at a car show.
Our headers are flow design, many hours spend in the flow table all of products are of a high quality and design to be easy to install such as our V6, 4 link, pulley kits and soon our front end kit, which it has been on the table for 4 years.
Dann's products are of a good quality also I am sure we all do our best for those who want a kit for a RWD, FWD V6. or Ford V8.

I am very happy that you can do it on the cheap and sure that it will be a nice swap.

You an I have talked on the phone several times. Writing is very impersonal and can lead to misunderstandings.


I have seem several MGB's V6 and V8 that have owners build motor mounts etc. Very few looked ok the rest? one has to wonder.