MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 11, 2019 09:50PM

Presumably, the 2014/2015 Caddy CTS-V used the Aisin AA80E. It may have had a controller that was separate from the PCM, or it may not. I'm still trying to get info about that. So there is a very faint glimmer of hope, but it wanes as time passes.

Jim


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(717 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: March 12, 2019 02:18AM

You might want to contact the guy at the bottom of this article
[gearsmagazine.com]


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 12, 2019 03:52PM

Nothing there to indicate anything has been done with the Aisin. But I do have a couple feelers out. One guy on the ctsvowners forum tells me it was used in the cts sport, not the v, and presumably that was behind an LS but he hasn't confirmed it. I still have no info on what controller was used or at present, what year. Which is critical because they used several different transmissions so I need the exact application and preferably the part number.

IF (and it's still a pretty big if) it was used behind a V8 with a GM controller it's just barely possible that 1) it could be a separate module and, 2) it may be able to interface with an earlier GM ecu like the '411. Apparently they are at least tuning the Caddy ecm with HPTuners software so at least some possibilities may exist for use if it does turn out to be a unitary pcm but it's not a large community like Silverado owners so how refined that is would be anybody's guess. Since the owners of a car with the Aisin installed is a much smaller subset, again the odds diminish, but we'll see. I'll keep the hardware for awhile yet.

Then of course there's the question as to whether the same valve body was used. That may have to be changed out (assuming that is even possible) to match the caddy tcm.

In the meantime, I need to get the car back on the road. I need to buy wheels because the fronts are too big and have too much backspacing, new tires too, front and rear. I've decided to go with a 15" rim on the front which will mount a 245 wide tire, a little narrower than I'm used to but it should work fine. It will give me about a 3" smaller diameter which will really help out my front suspension and clearance issues. I'm considering a 7" or 7-1/2" wide wheel which is a bit narrower than their recommended range but it will still fit fine and will be a little lighter and the sidewall will do a better job of protecting the rim. I ran 265's on a 7" rim for many years and never had an issue:
[www.tirerack.com]

This would give the car a California rake. Or, I could stay with the 17 size and use the Toyo Proxes R1R in a 245/35-17 but it's a 1" bigger tire and still requires the wheel purchase, I'm not getting around that. So I think the 15's are going to get the nod.

On the rear I guess I'll stay with the Sumitomo. The UTOG is a little lower, 160 instead of 200 so you'd think it might be a little stickier, but it isn't rated as high as the Hankook in the reviews so maybe not.
[www.tirerack.com]

Jim


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(540 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: March 12, 2019 07:25PM

Quote:
Established comm with the '411 and used TunerPro to go in and remove a bunch of items that won't be needed, mostly having to do with transmission, cats, DBW, and a few other things that don't apply to the typical V8 MGB. Basically just getting rid of the clutter. There remains a somewhat daunting number of tuning parameters and I didn't want to be confused by extra entries that don't do anything. Will that work? Can I just delete the flags and parameters that way? Not to mention tables and settings? Who knows. I'll find out when I go to start it up. If it doesn't I can revert to an earlier file before I removed all that.

I've been getting my documentation together too, found pages that look to be out of a Helms shop manual for an '01 Camaro so that should be handy. And today I went out and found the pages from where I did my injector dead-time testing which should give me everything I need for those.

In TunerPro I was even able to go in and change the VIN# to the one from my MGB. There are 4 left over spaces at the end so I think I may put MGB and a space at the beginning, at least see if it will let me do that, then start putting in the injector info. I also want to see what one of the other '411s has for ignition settings and compare them since I'll be running the Silverado coil packs. (This OS and tune are for a Camaro)

Jim are you referring to removing the XDF parameters or the actual data in the calibration? If it's the latter I wouldn't do that. Only the items needed for stand alone use are enabled in that bin. It is a manual bin as well so the auto stuff you see there is included in the factory calibration for a manual car. Also, you may want to be careful changing the VIN. I'm not 100% on this but I suspect there is a certain pattern that needs to be in that constant. I'd suggest keeping it as is until you've got the motor running and try changing it then if you feel you have to. Making changes like this before you get it running could introduce unknown changes to the calibration which doesn't help troubleshooting if you're having difficulties.

Check this link for wiring if you haven't already. [lt1swap.com]

The diagrams show you what pins you need an those that don't matter. I used the diagrams on this site with success.

I'm anxious to see your progress on this!

Scott


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 12, 2019 09:57PM

Thanks Scott, I much appreciate the advice. This is a once-through on the tune, after I have what I want I'll go create a duplicate without all the deletions and then when run time comes around I'll try both just to see what it does. Chances are good it's just as you suspect and the file with the deletions either won't run or runs very poorly, but I will learn a few things by trying it. At the very least I'll become more familiar with the tuning parameters that matter the most. I really don't expect the trimmed down one to work and I probably won't try it first. Most likely I will load them each in different controllers so I can just switch over the plugs when the time comes to try it. I'm just curious if they allowed for trimming the chaff out of the tuning interface and if so, how deeply that goes. Does lack of a parameter default to a zero? In many cases if it does that'd work just fine. For others it probably won't.

I followed your suggestions and printed out what look to me like some very good documents on the wiring for the 2001 Camaro. That's what I'll use unless you see any reason not to, as I think it matches the pinout you linked to but I will be double checking as I go. They came off the same site but are more detailed. The fact that it works with your car is very important to me.

I expect to start splicing wires this week but have mechanical bits to make so that takes time too. Mounting block for the GM 4 wire IAC, mount the trigger ring and pickup, and brackets for the Silverado coils at the very least, plus a mount for the MAP sensor.

I see the LS firing order is not the same as earlier GM (SBC and SBB). I'll be looking for a setting for that, there very well may be one. Otherwise I may have to change the wire assignments accordingly for injectors and coils.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2019 10:02PM by BlownMGB-V8.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 18, 2019 05:13PM

I've learned that the Caddy CTS V-Sport (1 step below the CTS-V, has a 3.4L turbo V6 @ 425hp) Used both the Aisin 8 speed and a standalone TCM. The TCM may be just a glorified solenoid driver however, I don't have that info yet, it's:

ACDELCO 24266725

It MAY run on a CAN bus link to the pcm, or it could be a more complex connection. It may or may not be able to work with the earlier 2001 '411 controller. Two pcm's are listed:

ACDELCO 12692067 and,
ACDELCO 12676230

Both of which appear to be used in V8 applications.

However, tuning of these newer pcm's could prove to be a challenge, and they are more expensive to acquire.

Jim


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(297 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: March 18, 2019 11:44PM

Jim,
The Asian 8 speed TCM contains VIN specific software data and has final say in transmission function/operation based on inputs from other modules via the high speed data line. It does contain processors and logic, so it is more then just a solenoid driver. It may be possible for it to function as a stand alone controller if communication is lost on the high speed network with other modules. However most likely it would limit transmission functions to a "limp or fail safe mode", as it relies on input from the ECM for RPM to control the shift points.

Unfortunately it probably won't communicate with the older 411 controllers. The TCM uses a high speed data rate of 500kbit while the older ECM uses 10.4Kbit class 2 communications.

Bill



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 19, 2019 01:46PM

Thanks Bill.

So the next question would be to find out how far things have moved along with the 2013-15 GM controllers, and if those above are interchangeable with Silverado, Camaro, and Corvette pcm's.

For now I'm moving ahead with the '411 controller for the 340 Buick to get the car back on the road. At the same time I'm in the middle of a blower 300/350 project and it seems feasible to mate the Aisin to that and put it on a run stand, which would let me check some of the TCM functions. Just don't expect to see much on that until after the car's running again. Right now I'm dealing with the pcm, wheels, tires and brakes. Lots to do before June.

Jim


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(297 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: March 19, 2019 11:31PM

Your welcome Jim,

Most of the advancements have been in processor speed both the input/out put as well as CAN communications. Sensor inputs are pretty much the same for the most part. Some applications are now using wide band O2 sensors as well.

Additionally a few engines are using individual fuel injector trim rates based off of monitored crankshaft speed, similar to how they do it on newer Duramax diesels.

Not sure if the new controllers will drive traditional port fuel injectors though, as most of the new ECM's are designed to run direct injected fuel injectors.
On 2014 and newer direct injected V8 engines, the controller uses "2 squirts" on cold start up and the direct injectors have a calculated flow rate per bank. The ECM then compares the flow rates between the cylinder banks. It is for this reason if we have a bad injector, the other 3 injectors on the same bank are usually replaced at the same time. Because the injectors are now the same age, the flow rates are now equal for the entire bank and the ECM doesn't set a DTC.

Fuel pump control modules are now being used and FPCM controls the supply side fuel pressure via pulse width modulation to the fuel pump. The FPCM commands fuel pressure based off the request from the ECM via high speed CAN line.

Now that I think about it, quite a lot has changed since 2001. My 17 Silverado has 80 more horsepower and gets better fuel mileage then my 99 did with the same 5.3L displacement!
Bill


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 20, 2019 12:17PM

Limp mode is definitely a concern, I already know what that is like. 3rd gear only. It moves right out but won't be going very fast.

It's entirely possible the TCM takes inputs from the paddle shifters and the console shift, and it has 3 speed sensors in the transmission so technically an engine rpm signal should not be required. However, they set them up to do some very fancy things. Who knows how much of that you can lose before limp mode sets in? Or how much of it goes over the CAN bus? The switch to high speed CAN is likely to be a bit of a problem as well.

In the Toyota applications gear selection is made by the PCM. I hope GM didn't follow their lead, but I'll have to get a wiring diagram from a v-sport to find out. Apparently the same TCM was used in a lot of the CTS models as well. (Did they also have the Aisin? IDK)

It might be possible to buy a wrecked Caddy as a donor. TCM, PCM, valve body, and wiring. But then it'll still be necessary to get inside the PCM to run V8 mode and set injector parameters, delete MAF, etc. DI is a further complication of course. Wonder if there were any non-DI engines in 2013? Sure seems like there were.

Jim


MG four six eight
Bill Jacobson
Wa state
(297 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 02:15AM

Main British Car:
73 MGB Buick 215, Eaton/GM supercharger

Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: MG four six eight
Date: March 23, 2019 12:32AM

Jim,

The V8 cars/trucks in 2013 were still port injected, while the V6 is direct injected. Pretty sure the V8 and V6 (port vs direct injected) use different ECM's. Since the Asian trans was used behind the V6, not sure if the Asian TCM will communicate with the V8 ECM as it was designed to communicate with the 6L80 6 speed from that era.
The paddle shift switches for manual shifting mode are actually wired to the BCM. Then the BCM sends a shift command signal to the TCM via the serial data line.
Bill


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 25, 2019 04:50PM

Here's some progress. The first photo is the LS internal trigger wheel with it's weird double row of staggered teeth. I have the matching double pickup but forgot to put it in the photo. The trigger wheel has 5 big balance holes in it which must help with balancing the LS crankshaft but I don't need those so I turned some plugs.

IMG_0005.JPG

In the second photo you can see that the plugs have been welded into place and the welds skimmed. Certainly helps to have the right tools. This will next have the ID cut to match my damper adapter which it will be either welded or bolted to later on. In the same photo you can also see the GM stepper type IAC motor and mounting block completed in anodized aluminum which will next be bolted to the underside of the air inlet scoop in place of the old Ford unit. I expect it will work much better. The old IAC was a PWM type and was very noisy.

IMG_0007.JPG

The last two photos show the Silverado COP coils positioned about where they will have to go, mounted above the valvecovers. These are the so-called "smart" coils or logic level input type with built in driver amplifiers to handle the heavy coil current. Brackets will have to be made to mount these.

IMG_0008.JPG

IMG_0009.JPG

Jim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 26, 2019 05:34PM

New wheels arrived today. I plan to clear anodize them before mounting tires. Although I am still considering color anodize, if I can find inexpensive dyes and tubs for them.

IMG_0010.JPG


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3697 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: March 30, 2019 10:59AM

Drag car wheels! :)


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: April 26, 2019 07:14PM

Finished up the coil mounts yesterday, got some photos. First just the mounts:

IMG_0003.JPG

Then the mounts with the coils attached:

IMG_0004.JPG

Finally the engine with the mounts and coils installed:

IMG_0007.JPG

So that's done. More to do.

Jim



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 03, 2019 04:10PM

IMG_0009.JPG

IMG_0008.JPG

IMG_0014.JPG

IMG_0015.JPG

Jim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 13, 2019 08:09PM

Two tone anodize.

Timing pickup bracket.jpg

Jim


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(717 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: May 13, 2019 09:33PM

Did you put some LSD in the bath?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5795 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 14, 2019 07:59AM

Just a test. I will be anodizing some wheels in a few days.


rficalora
Rob Ficalora
Willis, TX
(2615 posts)

Registered:
10/24/2007 02:46PM

Main British Car:
'76 MGB w/CB front, Sebring rear, early metal dash Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: 340 upgrade
Posted by: rficalora
Date: May 14, 2019 04:28PM

Spy photo...
Jim Blackwood.jpg
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