MG Sports Cars

I have a 1977 MGB that I'm dropping a 327 and mating manual transmission to. the car was a donor car for my 1971 but has no apparent frame rust. So after removing the engine and stripping the '77 bare, my grandparents donate a 327 and transmission to my project. I was originally thinking an LS_ swap, but since this drivetrain is free, I'm wondering what issues I'm going to run into trying to shoehorn the lot of it in. I already figured that I will have to retunnel the floor and likewise chop up the firewall. but the bigger question is what will need to be done inside the engine bay to make it all fit. (motor mounts, relocation of steering column) I'm also planning on possibly swapping the '77's front subframe for a chrome-bumper car's subframe to lower the car. Will there be any issues that will arise from doing that? Thanks
The part I'm most concerned with is interference between the engine and the steering column and front subframe shown here




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2008 11:39PM by brianremmers.

Welcome Brian!

So that folks might give you more/better advice... can you fill us in on a couple more things:

a) what transmission/shifter will you use?

b) are you willing to make your own exhaust headers? (I would certainly plan on using "RV8 style" through-the-fender headers... because they'll give you lots of steering and starter clearance, plus they'll help a lot with cooling.)

c) are you willing to have a hole or bulge in the hood when you get done?

d) do you care if the car has a heater when you get done? If so, can it be mounted under the dash?

I'm not sure which transmission it's going to be exactly, my grandparents didn't specify which design it was. it's coming out of a 1977 pickup.

I actually am looking into fabricating my own sidepipes for exactly those reasons, and for clearance on these bumpy New England roads. I think I just trashed one of my mufflers yesterday on a bump on my '71

I would prefer to not have to modify the hood in any way, but I would be willing to possibly make a cowl or air scoop if there's no other option

and lastly, I would like to keep the heater, but where it winds up, I don't really care... I'm probably better off finding a different type of heater anyways since the ones in the MG's suck

Unfortunately, I haven't picked up the engine and transmission from Delaware yet, so I can't really give any dimensions pertaining to how much room it's going to take up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2008 06:24AM by brianremmers.

Brian, you need to have a talk with Brad Carson in Denver. He's near completion with his SBC swap and I think he's driven it. He did very little cutting and no tunnel work. He'd definitely be a lot of help in this swap.

Jim

How would i get in contact with him? do you have a link or an email?
Thanks

Brian, to contact Brad:
1) click on "private messages"
2) click on "send a private message" (in the menu on the left)
3) where it says "Select Recipient", select "denvermgb" (that's Brad's UserID)...
(after you hit submit, Brad will get an e-mail. It's a pretty slick system.)

I'm really concerned about the 1977 pick-up truck transmission... I don't know exactly what tranny that would be, but it's unlikely to be anything that suits a sports car.

The early Chevy small block has its fans - even around here (e.g. Carl Floyd who's UserID is "mgbv8" will likely step in and say something kind about its lovely short stroke) - but even most of its biggest advocates will have to admit that it's grossly overweight for use in a British sports car. "Free" sounds like a great bargain... but on the other hand, you could probably sell that nice early Chevy small block for real money, buy a nineties Camaro donor car (with sixty-degree V6 and T5 5-speed) and have some change left over. If you want big horsepower, the Ford V8 is lighter than the Chevy too. Of course, if you're determined to use old Chevy iron... that's cool too!

Make sure to read all the How It Was Done articles... [www.britishv8.org] - lots of good advice and ideas there!

Brian,

Are you good at welding and fabricating?

Do you have welding and painting equipment?

What's your end budget going to be? As mentioned on the other board, if a budget is a concern here, unless you have all the time in the world and a $10,000+ hole in your back pocket, I still say this is going to end in tears. ;)

If your trying to use a bigger engine so you can outrun everything else, but planning on staying with the stock rear axle, stock suspension and brakes, please take me on. My front end will be lighter and I will have an axle that will allow the power I produce to transfer to the ground.

I am NOT trying to discourage you but if you dont have lots of 1- time, 2- skill, 3- money, than this is something that may be left to others who wish to take on the challenge.

Also, before you start, it may be a good idea to read books like How to give your MGB V8 power. I have never read any of these books but have been told by many that this helped them decide.

Any common engine is going to have more than 1 person supporting you online. GM V6, Ford V6, Ford 302 V8, BOP/R alloy V8. Trade that driveline for something that will fit and be worthy of driving. Heck, it makes far more sense to install an LS1- just as hard BUT a far better and lighter engine.

One other point that has not been mentioned in these threads:
So, getting a Free engine and a Free car huh? So, I suppose your thoughts are like Every person who has ever considered a conversion- I can do this for less than $500!!!

Not so. The average conversion parts run about $5K plus for just about anything- I4, V6, V8, V12- whatever.

So, lets take your engine out of the equation because its free and so is the 3 speed. Okay, to fit this system, you have a few hundred in welding materials and steel, plus a different oil pan and pulleys- now all of a sudden, your free engine cost you 50 to 300 hours EXTRA time to fit and the parts to fit cost an additional $750. Oh, then there was that 4 barrel manifold that flows better and bigger carb to get the power that should be coming from this engine- $700 new... Okay- so your free engine just cost $1450. Now what about everything else? Pipes to make headers (NO- cast iron manifolds will NOT fit inside the rails), the 2 or 3 universal joints around the steering shaft (at $75 a pop plus shipping), the driveshaft, the connections for the oil, the ultra small alternator, the rewire of a few items and ....... Suddenly, you are now at the $5K plus mark for bits and pieces (if you keep track) or beyond and hundreds of hours beyond what most people have. Oh, dont forget that the magic $5K is a guess and that does NOT include a rear axle upgrade, tires, wheels, paint, the donor car, any sublet-labor you use, anything to do with brakes or anything else. Okay, maybe you can purchase a speedometer and tachometer in that price.

Add to this, something that is in the neighborhood of boat anchor weight up front and limited tire width with a bad axle ratio in back does not make for a fast car.

So, to get back to what I was saying:
My 160 BHP and 200 Lbs Tq motor with a 3.42 rear axle and limited slip with 205 series tires, good suspension, good brakes and balanced weight should be able to top out at a higher speed (pending- your engine is $tock), go about the same speed or faster in the quarter mile due to tires and axle differences (not to mention I will have axle hop taken care of), out-maneuver you in an autocross or slalom and out-brake you.

So, trade that system unless your ready and able to spend extra time and money on your project to do everything else. If you want something differrent, PLEASE do not let me spoil your dreams. I am not trying to be a nay-sayer, but it sounds like your trying to do a budget build and what your end results will be may not be as dreamed.

-BMC.


p.s. You will be able to out burn me in burn-out contest. (Sorry- had to!!)

Brian,

Want a little dry humor? Comparison stuff?

[www.mgexperience.net]

I just picked 350, didn't mean anything by it but you may get an idea of costs.

Enjoy.

-BMC.

Quote:

The early Chevy small block has its fans - even around here (e.g. Carl Floyd who's UserID is "mgbv8" will likely step in and say something kind about its lovely short stroke)

The 327 Chevy is a great classic short stroke SBC. A friend of mine has one in a '66 Chevy II Nova. It screams on top end. He regularly winds it to 7500-8000 rpm. If you are building a hotrod or a drag car, go ahead and use it. If you want to have a good handling, well-balanced sports car with more ummph, choose something else. I bleed Chevy orange, but I run a Buick/Rover V8 cause my MG has got to handle. Maybe an LS1, someday.

I do have a welder and painting equiptment, I do plan on doing all that myself... My budget is unfortunately somewhere around $3-4k over two years...alas, I am fresh out of college with student loans hounding me.

I suppose handling is one of my concerns, but I have to admit, I currently drive my '71 faster than most new sportscars, and it's got blown rear shocks... I don't mind a car that isn't perfect balance, in fact, I kind of enjoy a little challenge like that usually. I agree with the LS1, but I don't have one of those lying around like I do that 327...I'm also looking into what i can do to improve handling of the car as far as aerodynamics goes, since mechanical grip is usually far more of a challenge to get.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2008 11:03PM by brianremmers.