MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 08, 2012 11:38AM

Maybe it is too early to even bring this up. But I went out and bought the new edition of Hot Rod Magazine a few days ago because it has a picture of the MG-Roadmaster on page 18 and discovered on page 88 that they did a big spread on the 2014 LT1 V8 that Chevy is putting in the new Corvette.
Guys, this engine is the future of the conversion hobby. Direct injection, reasonably small and light, same bore and stroke as the LS-3, allthe torque and horsepower we could ever want, and AFM too. What AFM does is turn it into a 3.1 liter four cylinder engine when you are putting around town. In the massively heavy C7 Corvette that is good for 30 mpg, undoubtedly we could do even better. Mate that to the right transmission and it could go up even more.

Now I know I said I wasn't going to build another MG-Roadmaster and I don't intend to. But this is a car we have to build. I don't know how or when or who, but I do know that it has to happen.

Jim


Todd McCreary
Todd McCreary

(207 posts)

Registered:
03/16/2012 10:57PM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Todd McCreary
Date: December 08, 2012 02:32PM

[www.kickstarter.com] is starting to get a lot of play.


burner1
Gary W

(212 posts)

Registered:
09/24/2011 09:59AM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: burner1
Date: December 08, 2012 07:57PM

Jim,

What f you went further. Take the Factory 5 33 for example:

[www.factoryfive.com]

I think with what you can do, with the group you are associated with, with the direction the MG conversions have gone over the last few years....How about a collaboration of specific people who want to be involved to develop a tube framed MG. You could create uniform parameters, dimensions, parts, a package so to speak.

When your done you could probably sell the R&D to someone willing to produce a kit.

I could also see incorporating some things into the kit which would really set it apart form what is out there. I love the project going on now where the MG is widened a few inches. I think that would make the MG profile extremely striking. Of course the LS engines would be a standard fit.

Just a thought.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4576 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Moderator
Date: December 08, 2012 08:53PM

If you're thinking of building a really over-the-top car, one item for the wish list might be a brand new British Motor Heritage bodyshell.


burner1
Gary W

(212 posts)

Registered:
09/24/2011 09:59AM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: burner1
Date: December 08, 2012 09:08PM

My thoughts for a tube/kit would be all you need is an existing shell and little else.


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: December 08, 2012 09:36PM

An all wheel drive with a 6.2 liter or the new 427. The new LTI....well it is complex but possible when it becomes over the counter purchase, as of rigth now is only for the C7 Vette.

But a 6.2 with ECU ready to run is available, it is also California smog legal.


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: December 09, 2012 10:28AM

Price for the LS3 is $7000 435 hp You would need a trans and the front brackets for AC alt etc. and pulleys.

Not bad. considering a swap for my 454 SS truck All I need is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 09, 2012 12:13PM

I read somewhere that the LT1 is also going to be used in the pickup trucks. That would make it a little more common, and as the hot new engine I would suspect chevy would like to get it into circulation rather quickly. If a 6.2L LS3 is 7 grand with the computer there might be reason to hope that the LT1 might not be much higher and might be available about the same time that the 2014 cars come on the market a little less than a year from now. It is a big price to pay for an engine for the MGB but if one were willing to go five grand on the front suspension and ten on the paint then it is not unreasonable for what you get. Then too, there will be a few of them available as salvage rather early on, there always are. And that number will just increase. So someone ready to plunk down the cash will be able to find one.

The LS3 is undoubtedly a fine engine but if I were starting a conversion right now I would just plan to get the engine in about a year and go for the new LT1.

Jim


Preform Resources
Dave Craddock
Redford,Michigan
(359 posts)

Registered:
12/20/2008 05:46PM

Main British Car:
72 MGB V6 3.4

Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Preform Resources
Date: December 09, 2012 03:08PM

Bill, the amount you could save in gas over that 454 would pay you back in two years LOL...
Dave


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(829 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: December 09, 2012 09:16PM

If it is used in trucks it will likely have an iron block, different heads and intake. The LS1 came out as an all aluminum engine with low profile intake but the truck version had iron block and a taller torque oriented intake. Good news is that all parts interchanged and that will likely continue with the gen III LT1. This engine will likely become the basis for all V8's throughout the GM product line like the LSX did. Jim, we both may have to do another car based on this engine. Dibs on the AWD version.


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: December 10, 2012 01:25PM

Dave, my 454 can pass anything on the road until it sees a gas station, the auto brake system stops on each gas station it sees.

The new LTI is a complex one with the wiring, I would wait until GM will make the LT 1 available over the counter with everything ECU loom etc. I am sure they will.


cruiseman
Richard Woodley
Ameliasburg, Ontario, Canada
(32 posts)

Registered:
01/21/2010 02:51PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB GT Rover 3.5

Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: cruiseman
Date: December 12, 2012 11:56AM

Just received my January issue of Road and Track which also has a feature article on the new LT1. See page 64 for those who read this magazine.

Richard Woodley


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 26, 2012 04:19PM

I did see something that said the truck engine would also be aluminum. However, even at that the fully dressed weight of the engine is given as 465 lbs (with A/C compressor, starter, exhaust, etc.) That is as heavy as the 455 Buick so it should not be thought of as a lightweight. However as we have seen, the MGB is quite capable of handling an engine of that weight. So far I have not seen any dimensions but a video of the assembly of the engine shows a piece bolted to the driver's side of the pan that sticks out pretty far. I guess that could be modified.

Perhaps a greater concern is the past history of AFM, especially the oil consumption. They claim to have it solved this time around but that was what they said last time too. Might be a good idea to wait a year or so and see how they do. Of course it can be turned off. I see no reason why a Megasquirt-III controller would not be able to run this engine and that would undoubtedly be cheaper than the factory system. At 450hp/450tq and 6600rpm for the base engine it is serious power. What remains is to see how well it will fit in the engine compartment.

Jim


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(829 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: December 27, 2012 09:21AM

Jim

Are you sure about the weight of the 455? I found the following on Wikipedia

The 455 was one of the first "thin-wall casting" engine blocks (at GM), and because of this advance in production technology it weighs significantly less than other engines of comparable size (for example, 150 lb (68 kg) less than a Chevrolet 454 and only 25 lb (11 kg) more than a Chevrolet 350).

I weighed my 2nd gen LT1 with aluminum heads and it weighs 525 lbs with all front accessories and a flywheel.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 27, 2012 12:33PM

I could be off a few lbs Jim. Here is a link to the page where we got the actual component weights:

[forum.britishv8.org]

Look about 3/4 of the way down the page. Apparently with the 455 with iron heads and intake we were at about 465 lbs without the starter and flywheel. It uses a light weight gear reduction starter and I do not know the flywheel weight. A bare aluminum head weighs 27 lbs so I'd say TA's claim that aluminum heads and intake are good for 90 lbs is accurate but that would mean the engine only weighed 375 lbs without starter and flywheel. I have to question that number, it just sounds too light. But we did have a total weight of 300 pounds for the complete short block minus flywheel, starter, and engine mounts, and apparently on tear down the weights added up. We were using two digital scales to compare accuracy.

Jim



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 27, 2012 12:43PM

Here's another way to look at it. The 215 is often listed as weighing 318lbs. the block weighs 62 lbs and the crank is 60. The 455 block weighs 177 lbs and the crank is 66 so right there is an additional 6 + 115 or 121 lbs so it has to weigh over 439 lbs. A couple of extra lbs in the heads and a heavier flywheel and we're right at 450. That makes a lot more sense to me.

Jim


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(829 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: December 27, 2012 03:20PM

I weighed the LT1 when I got it using a triangular platform and 3 bathroom scales. With alt, p/s pump, a/c compressor, starter and manual flywheel it weighed 525 lbs. Thw Wiki article said the 455 weighed 25 lbs more than a s/b Chevy which would be in the 450 lb range if they were comparing it with an aluminum head 350, more if it was an iron head model. I looked in a couple other places and the consensus is over 600 lbs. I know, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet but it just doesn't seem plausible that a 455 Buick would weigh 70 lbs less than a s/b Chevy with aluminum heads

[www.carnut.com]

[www.gomog.com]

[www.1badriv.com]

[www.442.com] 2/3 of the way down


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 27, 2012 06:22PM

Maybe BadRiv has something with the nickel content. A hard casting requires less mass, and they were doing pioneering work with thinwall castings. I've heard that the '71 455 block that we used is 50 lbs lighter than some of the other BBB blocks but can't say for sure. When we were measuring weights we were using a pair of 300lb digital postal scales as well as a cantaliver beam and spring scale hung from the engine hoist. About a year back I got a nice platform type balance scale that would be very handy for getting engine weights but haven't had occasion to use it for that purpose. Too bad I didn't have it when we were building the engine, it would have been a simple matter to weigh every component and also the final assembly.

Even so, I've seen weights given for SBC components that are not much different than those for the BBB, + or - a pound or two here, a pound or two there. My impression, based on what we've done with the Roadmaster and what I've seen in SBC equipped MG's is that they are probably not too different in finished weight. Our best bet is probably to get out the corner scales and get some actual vehicle weights to compare them. Unfortunately I don't think we have weights for any of the SBC cars and the omly one we have for the RM is without glass or interior (1957 lbs). We were shooting for a sub 2500 lb finished weight but I have no idea if we made it.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 09, 2013 12:39PM

Clan, According to Kenne Bell, who new a couple of things about bbb's, "if you put an aluminum intake, on a 455, it's only 50 lbs. heavier than a sbc." . I 'd like if BA. II was tranverse mid-engine, you know- a British Boxter ? Two Cents, roverman.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4576 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: B.A.D.A.S.S.-II?
Posted by: Moderator
Date: January 10, 2013 02:10PM

Art typed "Boxter" but I read "Boxer" - and I think that's a swell idea!

Subaru WRX drivetrain complete with big turbo and all wheel drive - but grafted into a Little British Car!

Whereas Roadmaster is all about "old school", I'd like to see B.A.D.A.S.S.-II be thoroughly modern.

We'd all learn more from the endeavor, and we'd be appealing to a whole different generation of performance enthusiasts.

Although I love MGs an much as anybody... a different chassis might be interesting too:

Imagine this w/ WRX underpinnings!
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