MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

Go to Thread: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicLog In
Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


restorejag
Mike Alexander
Richmond Va.
(23 posts)

Registered:
02/19/2008 05:53PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS

Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: restorejag
Date: October 03, 2013 07:44AM

I completed my MGBGT in July with a 302. I used the Moss coil over kit part # 268-218.At 600 miles
I noticed the shock bushings were starting to fail.I called Moss who sent me new bushings ,they are also started to fail. At this time Moss has not come up with a solution.
Has anyone else had this problem with the kit.This car is used for normal driving.Any ideas on solution?

Thanks

Mike
Shocks24 web.jpg
Shocks23 web.jpg
Shocks22 web.jpg
Shocks27 web.jpg


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: mstemp
Date: October 03, 2013 09:05AM

Mike,

How about Prothane or Energy?

[www.energysuspension.com]

Interested in what you do as I have about 300 miles on my Moss kit. Guess I better have a looks!

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2013 09:15AM by mstemp.


restorejag
Mike Alexander
Richmond Va.
(23 posts)

Registered:
02/19/2008 05:53PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: restorejag
Date: October 03, 2013 11:57AM

They are poly bushings,the springs are set at the lowest setting also the valve.I would think the
bushings that come with the kit should work.
Mike


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: mstemp
Date: October 03, 2013 08:19PM

Mike,

I recall mine looking like poor quality when I installed the kit, especially when I pushed them through the new large hole in the subframe for the upper mount. Sort of reminded me of WallMart products and thinking how long is this going to last. Not all urethane parts are the same.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: October 04, 2013 02:57AM

Hey Mike,
I run into this problem with urethane bushings all the time.
They hold up well and do a superior job when stress vectors are varied and transitional.
However when subjected to a constant load they deform or "flow" and fail.
A better choice is a good old fashioned rubber bushing or a nylon or composite bushing.
If noise is not a concern then a full metal setup would be best.
Cheers
Fred


pspeaks
Paul Speaks
Dallas, Texas
(698 posts)

Registered:
07/20/2009 06:40PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: pspeaks
Date: October 04, 2013 05:46PM

Fred, you think then that urethane is not a good choice for normal street driving? Moss has been selling that suspension modification for years; surly they must know there's a problem by now. I was giving it serious thought for my GT but right now I'm replacing my radiator with an aluminum cross flow and making some changes to my steering so I guess I have a little time to think about it.

Paul


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: October 04, 2013 08:37PM

Urethane is just fine in most instances Paul.
Sway bars, control arms, suspension links etc are all good candidates for urethane bushings.
The problem crops up when the bushing is subjected to a constant unrelenting pressure.
Such as supporting the weight of a car through a coilover set up.
Unless the bushing is unreasonably large the urethane will deform and continue to deform until it finally breaks.
There are other materials much better suited to this situation.
Cheers
Fred



pspeaks
Paul Speaks
Dallas, Texas
(698 posts)

Registered:
07/20/2009 06:40PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: pspeaks
Date: October 05, 2013 01:09AM

Thanks Fred, I guess my plans are back on track. I haven't installed them yet but I have a front and rear urethane set. Still a little concern about squeaking and the correct grease to use.


Paul


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(1028 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: October 05, 2013 09:05AM

Installed the Moss coilover last Winter and have put 4K miles on since...so I'll definitely check for bushing wear when it goes on the Winter blocks....as I recall the bushings are Ozzy made.(SuperPro?)


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: mstemp
Date: October 05, 2013 09:25AM

Graham,

I think the bushing are the ones on the shocks. Those were the only black ones on my kit and looked to be of suspect quality. I am sure Mike A will let us know if that is correct.


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: October 05, 2013 03:42PM

What size are they ID and OD I may be able to help you.


restorejag
Mike Alexander
Richmond Va.
(23 posts)

Registered:
02/19/2008 05:53PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: restorejag
Date: October 05, 2013 07:59PM

Thanks to every one for there input.I have contacted GAX technical who wanted the photos .Have
not gotten a responce at this time.I will let everone know when I do.
The bushings are the ones on the shock.
Bill I will let you know the size if I can ,it may be hard to do on the failed ones.
Thanks again
Mike


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: October 07, 2013 01:39PM

Coil over bushings as per e-mail This is the way they should be.
Shock Bushings 001.jpg
Shock Bushings 003.jpg


restorejag
Mike Alexander
Richmond Va.
(23 posts)

Registered:
02/19/2008 05:53PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: restorejag
Date: October 07, 2013 04:17PM

Bill,
I do have the sleeve,it is 1/2id 3/4od.1 3/4 long.They use a poly spacer in between the bushings.What material are yours made from?
Mike


classic conversions
bill guzman

(294 posts)

Registered:
01/09/2008 01:58AM

Main British Car:


Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: classic conversions
Date: October 08, 2013 12:54AM

Then there is low quality bushing, all QA 1 US built shock use the bushing I picture. My front end kit that was installed in 2005 still has the original bushings in the shocks.

Get a better quality bushing.



mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: mstemp
Date: January 26, 2014 12:46PM

Mike A,

Did you ever get a response from Gaz? While my car sat over the winter the bushings have failed. Found this yesterday when the car was lifted to work underneath. Less than 350 miles!

Mike


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5627 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 26, 2014 02:14PM

Simple polyurethane tends to be something of a biodegradeable compound and needs certain fairly specific stabilizers to give it any kind of a usable lifespan. Those stabilizers tend to be specific to the application also and it seems to be pretty easy to be off just a bit on the formulation, which results in a reduced service life. Either there is something of an art in getting the formula just right, or certain chemists believe in planned in obsolescence, but a service life of less than five years does not seem to be all that uncommon (in some cases considerably less) while a lifespan of over ten years is not infrequent in superior compounds. The durometer or hardness seems to be a factor as well with softer parts tending toward earlier decomposition.

By now Urethane parts have been around for something like 2-3 decades so we're beginning to see a track record. Based on that the best is to pick those products that have a history indicating that they should be able to meet your requirements. Durability of urethane *can* be better than rubber but that isn't saying it always will be.

Jim


NCtim
Tim Shumbera
Western North Carolina
(238 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2012 04:35PM

Main British Car:


Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: NCtim
Date: February 25, 2014 05:03PM

So what have we learned to date? Any news from GAZ or Moss on this issue. I am planning on the Moss coil-over for my car also.

Tim


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5627 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 25, 2014 05:17PM

What I've learned is that in general, expecting a urethane bushing the size of a shock end to support nearly 1000lbs and absorb shocks for 100K miles without deforming is not really very realistic. If any *can* do it, they are made of an exceptional material indeed and we need to identify them.

(approx. 500# at wheel x approx. 2:1 ratio at shock)

Jim


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(189 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Posted by: mstemp
Date: February 26, 2014 12:30AM

Jim,

They are not lasting 500 miles so there is more to it than that. Gaz had to change suppliers a few years ago due to a fire that consumed the original source.
Energy makes a suitable replacement.
Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.