restorejag Mike Alexander Richmond Va. (24 posts) Registered: 02/19/2008 05:53PM Main British Car: 1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS |
Coil Over Bushing Failure
I completed my MGBGT in July with a 302. I used the Moss coil over kit part # 268-218.At 600 miles
I noticed the shock bushings were starting to fail.I called Moss who sent me new bushings ,they are also started to fail. At this time Moss has not come up with a solution. Has anyone else had this problem with the kit.This car is used for normal driving.Any ideas on solution? Thanks Mike |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Mike,
How about Prothane or Energy? [www.energysuspension.com] Interested in what you do as I have about 300 miles on my Moss kit. Guess I better have a looks! Mike Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2013 09:15AM by mstemp. |
restorejag Mike Alexander Richmond Va. (24 posts) Registered: 02/19/2008 05:53PM Main British Car: 1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
They are poly bushings,the springs are set at the lowest setting also the valve.I would think the
bushings that come with the kit should work. Mike |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Mike,
I recall mine looking like poor quality when I installed the kit, especially when I pushed them through the new large hole in the subframe for the upper mount. Sort of reminded me of WallMart products and thinking how long is this going to last. Not all urethane parts are the same. |
DiDueColpi Fred Key West coast - Canada (1365 posts) Registered: 05/14/2010 03:06AM Main British Car: I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now! |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Hey Mike,
I run into this problem with urethane bushings all the time. They hold up well and do a superior job when stress vectors are varied and transitional. However when subjected to a constant load they deform or "flow" and fail. A better choice is a good old fashioned rubber bushing or a nylon or composite bushing. If noise is not a concern then a full metal setup would be best. Cheers Fred |
pspeaks Paul Speaks Dallas, Texas (698 posts) Registered: 07/20/2009 06:40PM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Fred, you think then that urethane is not a good choice for normal street driving? Moss has been selling that suspension modification for years; surly they must know there's a problem by now. I was giving it serious thought for my GT but right now I'm replacing my radiator with an aluminum cross flow and making some changes to my steering so I guess I have a little time to think about it.
Paul |
DiDueColpi Fred Key West coast - Canada (1365 posts) Registered: 05/14/2010 03:06AM Main British Car: I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now! |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Urethane is just fine in most instances Paul.
Sway bars, control arms, suspension links etc are all good candidates for urethane bushings. The problem crops up when the bushing is subjected to a constant unrelenting pressure. Such as supporting the weight of a car through a coilover set up. Unless the bushing is unreasonably large the urethane will deform and continue to deform until it finally breaks. There are other materials much better suited to this situation. Cheers Fred |
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pspeaks Paul Speaks Dallas, Texas (698 posts) Registered: 07/20/2009 06:40PM Main British Car: 1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Thanks Fred, I guess my plans are back on track. I haven't installed them yet but I have a front and rear urethane set. Still a little concern about squeaking and the correct grease to use.
Paul |
ex-tyke Graham Creswick Chatham, Ontario, Canada (1165 posts) Registered: 10/25/2007 11:17AM Main British Car: 1976 MGB Ford 302 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Installed the Moss coilover last Winter and have put 4K miles on since...so I'll definitely check for bushing wear when it goes on the Winter blocks....as I recall the bushings are Ozzy made.(SuperPro?)
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mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Graham,
I think the bushing are the ones on the shocks. Those were the only black ones on my kit and looked to be of suspect quality. I am sure Mike A will let us know if that is correct. |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
What size are they ID and OD I may be able to help you.
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restorejag Mike Alexander Richmond Va. (24 posts) Registered: 02/19/2008 05:53PM Main British Car: 1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Thanks to every one for there input.I have contacted GAX technical who wanted the photos .Have
not gotten a responce at this time.I will let everone know when I do. The bushings are the ones on the shock. Bill I will let you know the size if I can ,it may be hard to do on the failed ones. Thanks again Mike |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
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restorejag Mike Alexander Richmond Va. (24 posts) Registered: 02/19/2008 05:53PM Main British Car: 1974 MGBGT 1958 MGA 1968 JAG XKE Ford 302 215 OLDS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Bill,
I do have the sleeve,it is 1/2id 3/4od.1 3/4 long.They use a poly spacer in between the bushings.What material are yours made from? Mike |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Then there is low quality bushing, all QA 1 US built shock use the bushing I picture. My front end kit that was installed in 2005 still has the original bushings in the shocks.
Get a better quality bushing. |
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mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Mike A,
Did you ever get a response from Gaz? While my car sat over the winter the bushings have failed. Found this yesterday when the car was lifted to work underneath. Less than 350 miles! Mike |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6468 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Simple polyurethane tends to be something of a biodegradeable compound and needs certain fairly specific stabilizers to give it any kind of a usable lifespan. Those stabilizers tend to be specific to the application also and it seems to be pretty easy to be off just a bit on the formulation, which results in a reduced service life. Either there is something of an art in getting the formula just right, or certain chemists believe in planned in obsolescence, but a service life of less than five years does not seem to be all that uncommon (in some cases considerably less) while a lifespan of over ten years is not infrequent in superior compounds. The durometer or hardness seems to be a factor as well with softer parts tending toward earlier decomposition.
By now Urethane parts have been around for something like 2-3 decades so we're beginning to see a track record. Based on that the best is to pick those products that have a history indicating that they should be able to meet your requirements. Durability of urethane *can* be better than rubber but that isn't saying it always will be. Jim |
NCtim Tim Shumbera Western North Carolina (239 posts) Registered: 01/19/2012 04:35PM Main British Car: |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
So what have we learned to date? Any news from GAZ or Moss on this issue. I am planning on the Moss coil-over for my car also.
Tim |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6468 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
What I've learned is that in general, expecting a urethane bushing the size of a shock end to support nearly 1000lbs and absorb shocks for 100K miles without deforming is not really very realistic. If any *can* do it, they are made of an exceptional material indeed and we need to identify them.
(approx. 500# at wheel x approx. 2:1 ratio at shock) Jim |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Jim,
They are not lasting 500 miles so there is more to it than that. Gaz had to change suppliers a few years ago due to a fire that consumed the original source. Energy makes a suitable replacement. |