BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6468 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
It's a lot to ask of any bushing.
Jim |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Funny QA-1 have no issues according to Bill! Also it's how they are sold so one expects them to work. Gaz does employ Engineers so I expect them to work no mater what you believe should be used. If rubber works in lots of OE Coilover application I believe Polly can be formulated to function for more than 500 miles! Oh and Jim if you were the one who made the purchase and now had to rip it all apart you too might be a bit pissed.
Should anyone want to buy the Moss setup, order three sets of Energy 99105G bushings to use in place of what comes in their kit. Three are needed because one set needs to be cut up to get the extra length in the lower bushing, this is also what Gaz did. Or source one that has a wider spacing. Another option may be the nylatron bushing Moss sell for the lower control arms. Not sure of noise etc though. Other than the bushings I am happy with the kit. Moss has been stand up guys on this and they are working on a fix as well right now. From what they say Mike A and I were the first to have the issue. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2014 10:54AM by mstemp. |
302GT Larry Shimp (240 posts) Registered: 11/17/2007 01:13PM Main British Car: 1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I had GAZ shocks with my Hoyle suspension kit. The bushings failed in about 1500 miles; same for all replacements. I finally went to QA1 shocks and the bushings have held up well for over 10,000 miles. I also like the QA1 shocks better because the adjustment only stiffens the rebound; the compression damping is fixed and relatively soft. With the adjustable GAZ shocks, the compression and rebound are adjusted together. To get acceptable rebound damping, the compression damping was much too stiff causing the car to jump sideways on bumpy corners.
|
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Larry,
With your replacement bushings on the Gaz, were they all Gaz or did you try another manufacturer? Thanks, Mike |
302GT Larry Shimp (240 posts) Registered: 11/17/2007 01:13PM Main British Car: 1968 MGB GT Ford 302 crate engine |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I used GAZ replacements. I considered trying another type but then a shock shaft bushing wore out on one and I gave up on them.
|
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I have just installed Moss coil Overs and after reading above comments begining to wonder wether the cost and effort are worth it. if you guys are on average getting 500 highway miles from a set of bushes there is a major problem in manufacture and I would think both GAZ and Moss have a case to answer in selling sub standard components, that by the way are of a safty nature.
Has anyone taken GAZ and Moss to task on this issue. |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Tony,
I believe Mike A and myself have both taken Moss to task. Simple answer is change out the bushing if you don't want to do it again at a later date. Maybe we were both just unlucky, maybe Poly is the wrong material. Just be sure to keep an eye on them over the first few 1000 miles. |
|
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Any updates on this issue? I´m just about to fit my Moss coilover kit.
Cheers John |
Moderator Curtis Jacobson Portland Oregon (4576 posts) Registered: 10/12/2007 02:16AM Main British Car: 71 MGBGT, Buick 215 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I tried to ignore this thread, hoping it wouldn't effect me. I installed the Moss/GAZ shocks shortly before driving to Palestine TX for BritishV8 2012. I drove to Omaha for the 2013 meet, and I've been driving a lot since then... so I guess I probably have at least 7 or 8 thousand miles on the bushings. I'm not getting any front suspension noise and I don't feel any slop in the front suspension with my car on jackstands. I can't see the upper ends at all without taking things apart. The bottom bushings look distorted, but I don't think they've collapsed or crumbled as bad as what's shown in photos above.
Now, I'm thinking of taking off on a long road trip. (There's going to be a great vintage car race at Watkins Glen.) So, I may try making/installing some nylon bushes in a hurry. Anyone have tips about making/using nylon bushes? If I need replacement bushings in a hurry, do you think I might find something suitable at NAPA or CarQuest? Rubber maybe? We didn't always have polyurethane options, did we? Or should I just get in my car and drive? They really don't look THAT bad. |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6468 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Curtis, might I suggest some alternatives to nylon, as it is known to absorb water?
The traditional choice in a more or less inert engineering plastic is Delrin. And that works fine but is quite hard, therefore does not give much isolation, and pretty much requires a lubricant to avoid squeaking. I would characterize it as a "dry" plastic. Probably more suited to competition uses. I think UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) would be about the best choice. It isn't quite as hard as nylon (but close), does not absorb water, has a "soapy" feel and is relatively self lubricating. Commonly used in equipment as bearing surfaces to lessen sliding friction. Generally a good bit harder and more durable than polyurethane, which is highly dependent on the particular additives used. Does not deteriorate with age. Available in standard forms, bar, sheet, rod, etc. Jim |
ex-tyke Graham Creswick Chatham, Ontario, Canada (1165 posts) Registered: 10/25/2007 11:17AM Main British Car: 1976 MGB Ford 302 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Quote: Mine too! ...this is the second driving season for the Moss/GAZ suspension. I've reconciled the fact that I'll be changing out the bushings this Winter probably with the Energy Suspension 99105G bushings. Moss clearly has some homework to do to ensure a longer lasting product. |
mstemp Mike Stemp Calgary, Canada (222 posts) Registered: 11/25/2009 07:18AM Main British Car: 1980 MGB Rover 4.6L |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Curtis & Graham,
At least you got some miles out of them! Nylatron, Delrin, Rubber, interested what you guys end up trying. Front inner control arm bushings are the same size for the top, bottom needs the extra set cut to make up the extra width. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2014 10:32PM by mstemp. |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Plain rubber bushings do not work on a vertical loading, A arms rubber bushings are loaded sideways and it is minimal.
High performance shocks use Delring bushings and Teflon (different compounds). To effectively use rubber bushings in a shock were the loads are vertical, will not work. Standard shocks use rubber bushings, this bushings are pressure fit to the shock and it is a different compound. Once the rubber is pressed into the shock it is contracted which makes it harder. If a rubber bushing is found that fits the shock in questions, then it can be pressed in to the shock with a sleeve to further compress the rubber. |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6468 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Stay away from teflon too since it creeps under load and deforms easily and permanently. Glass filled teflon is better but still deforms and is slightly abrasive. Delrin will wear unless lubricated, is the best for holding shape under pressure, but does not absorb side loads well because it is so hard. There is no ideal material for such high loading and the ultimate solution is to replace them regularly. Hence the "Race Only" designation. I'd try UHMW and if that doesn't work go to delrin and live with oiling and the squeaks(maybe). Or switch to heim joints which will still need replacing but at longer intervals.
Jim |
|
Scott68B Scott Costanzo Columbus, Ohio (561 posts) Registered: 10/25/2007 11:30AM Main British Car: 1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Ok, I'll bring this back from the dead in an attempt to get a "final" answer. Has anyone used the Energy Suspension 99105G bushing? If so, what is the verdict?
|
mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2461 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
Scott, Mike Stemp did in the first page in this thread. I don't know if Graham has yet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2018 09:38PM by mgb260. |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
What is the latest on all of this? Has Moss changed the busing material in the shocks? There is an ongoing discussion on the MG Enthusiast sight with a picture of a failed shock bushing but the picture does not show the bushing that Moss or Gaz used in there setup. The bushing appears to be a Prothane brand and it looks to be too big? Anyone know? Thanks for any input.
|
ex-tyke Graham Creswick Chatham, Ontario, Canada (1165 posts) Registered: 10/25/2007 11:17AM Main British Car: 1976 MGB Ford 302 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I can't speak to any bushing changes made to the Moss product since the early failures...Kelvin would know.
I can say, that since changing to the Energy Suspensions 99105G bushings, that although they seem to hold up longer, today, they are also showing signs of distortion. For the record, here's a photo of the early Moss bushings after 2 driving seasons. |
RMO 699F Mike Maloney SW Ohio (531 posts) Registered: 12/09/2007 12:28PM Main British Car: 1974 MGB Sebring GT, 3.9 Rover V8 |
Re: Coil Over Bushing Failure
I really do not know a lot about the poly bushings..but do have some experience with injection molded parts from my years at Chrysler...if during the molding process those parts get “too hot””, they will look ok but start to crumble prematurely..moss needs to do an on site visit to the bushing supplier to review their processes...e.g. if the supplier is using a small percentage of reground/obsolete material in the process to save money parts can and will fail prematurely...if “virgin material” is used the part should to standard...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2020 06:27PM by RMO 699F. |