MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: December 18, 2016 10:48AM

Hey Brian,

Peak HP is at 5600 RPM. I wouldn't say it falls off a cliff after that as it is still close to 300 at the red line of 6000 RPM. Thank you for the suggestion on the ratio. I've been going back and forth between the two. So this past spring I went on a tour to some great twisty roads in southeast Ohio. I got to beat on the car for several hours. I really liked the way the car performed with the stock gear in that situation. On the other side, I spend a lot of time on freeways going back and forth to events so a lower ratio would help there. I came to the conclusion that the 3.42 is a good compromise.

Oh, Moser narrows axles, that's why I mentioned them. 😊

Are you coming to the meet?


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: December 19, 2016 09:28AM

Mike,

I just remembered that I neglected to mention another option I considered when deciding which way I was going to go with the crank pulley/accessory drive. I looked into an electric water pump very seriously for a time and, for a short time, actually made the decision to go that route. I was looking at this pump:

 [www.jegs.com]

I was planning on mounting it on the shelf in front of the radiator. You use these big AN and vendor fittings to plumb it. It's actually pretty neat in many ways. One advantage is you get lots of room at the front of the engine without the stock water pump in the way. An even bigger plus, in the case of the LS4, is you don't have to worry about driving the water pump and it greatly simplifies the conversion using the stock LS4 crank pulley. I think that is a compelling reason for going this route and as I mentioned,  I made the decision to go with it and was planning for it for several weeks. It's funny, but I kept thinking about turning the key on and listening to that pump running each time I started the engine and also reliability issues, whether they are real or not. For those reasons I opted to go with a traditional water pump.

Just mentioning this as another option I looked at.


lwcwb08
Mike Lawver

(4 posts)

Registered:
12/17/2014 07:59PM

Main British Car:


Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: lwcwb08
Date: December 20, 2016 09:55AM

That remote water pump setup would free up a lot of space for a turbocharger 😉


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: December 20, 2016 05:00PM

Quote:
That remote water pump setup would free up a lot of space for a turbocharger 😉

Mike,

Your build planning seems to have taken an interesting turn! 😊


BMC
Brian Mc Cullough
Forest Lake, Minnesota, USA
(371 posts)

Registered:
10/30/2007 02:27AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB '95 3.4L 'L32' SFI V6, GM V6T5 & 3.42 Limi

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BMC
Date: December 26, 2016 12:45AM

Scott, My MGB with 200 or so foot pounds of torque and an engine that basically ends at 5,000 RPM currently has the 3.42 behind it and with future modifications and more power band, the 3.42 is going to make sense. With your engine of more than 300 foot pounds of torque plus an engine that runs to 5600+ before it runs out, 3.42 is not bad. Since I like my car somewhat quiet and I don't mind losing a 1/10th second, I wouldn't mind either the 3.23 or 3.42. The question would become- does the 1/10 second loss in 0-60 bother me more or during a 80 mile drive, would that 200 RPM drop give me a more relaxed feeling during and after the drive.

Looking forward to your future water pump choices.

-BMC.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: January 04, 2017 08:07PM

I mentioned on the other forum that a couple of guys contacted me with some questions about the LS4 starter approach I used. I've stayed in touch via Instagram with one guy named Justin (crustywagon on Instagram). I don't mean this to sound condescending he's a younger guy but he's just like us....loves cars and conversions. He's putting his LS4 into an old Toyota wagon. He's in the automotive business and has access to lots of equipment. He's got a lot of talent. I asked him if he could share his starter solution. I think you'll enjoy it......I did. He's documenting his build on instagram so check out more of his work there.




Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: January 30, 2017 04:20PM

It's about time for an update to bring anyone who might still be following this thread up on where the conversion currently stands.

Believe it or not, I have about 5000 miles on the car since the conversion. I put more miles on the car this past year than I have for many years. It's been really reliable so far. I am very pleased with the conversion, it's every bit what I imagined it would be.

So I'm neck deep in my winter projects. The weather hasn't been too bad so progress has been steady. I'm doing a wide range of things this year including the following:

- Volvo fan install
- Reinstalling the stock heater box w/Fiero fan update
- Factory cruise install
- New seats

This will end up being a bit long so I'll break it down into a few posts. Since all of the changes involve wiring,  I concentrated on getting most of the wiring done first. The F6 wire sleeving that Jim Stabe suggested is working great. I was able to get into the harness easily and incorporate my changes with no issues. It was the right choice for me. Thanks again for the suggestion Jim! I'll start with the cruise control since it is straight forward. It is mostly a wiring exercise and is pretty straight forward. You need to supply key on power and ground to the module and then tie the module to the cruise control switch,  the brake/clutch switches, and the PCM. Here is the module partially installed into the engine bay.

LS4CruiseModuleInstall.jpg

I got the module out of a 2000 Cadillac DeVille mainly so I was sure it would work with my throttle body. Most of the GM Cruise modules from that period are the same but the cable ends vary depending on the application. You can change the cable but I think it is easier to get the right one to begin with.

So I really like having the cruise switch within easy reach and in a place you don't have to take your eyes off the road to find. For my situation finding a cheap turn signal mounted switch I could adapt seemed like the easiest approach.  I looked around for quite a while finally settling on a cruise switch from a 94-95 Grand Am. I wasn't sure it was going to work like I hoped but thought it was worth the chance based on what I could see in the pictures so I bought one. It actually worked out really well. Most of you may know that on a 68 B the horn switch is a part of the turn signal switch so something needed to be done there first. A new steering wheel was on the list so an aftermarket unit was purchased. Luckily, the parts for a steering wheel mounted horn switch that was used for a period of time on later Bs are available from Moss. Here is what I ended up with.

LS4HornMod.jpg

The steering wheel hub had to be drilled and the contact ring modified to fit properly to the hub but the mods were straight forward. 

Next the stock turn signal switch and the Grand Am switch had to be modified.  Here's a picture of of what they looked like after modification.

LS4CruiseSwitch.jpg

The Grand Am switch has a hollow tube running down the middle of it that the cruise switch wiring runs through. That tube is also a part of the headlight switch. At the end of the tube there is an arm that actually flips the internal headlight switch. This really isn't important to this description since I cut all of that stuff off of the switch anyway but I thought I'd include it. The interesting part about that tube is the MGB turn signal arm is a nice snug fit into it. So with a little tweaking you can just push the Grand Am switch on and you're good to go. Here is a picture of it installed.

LS4CruiseSwitchInstalled.jpg

I still have to finish the cruise module mount and build the brake/clutch switch mount but should be done after that.

I'll close for now but will add more later.

Edit: corrected some grammar/spelling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 04:24PM by Scott68B.



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3235 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 30, 2017 05:47PM

Anyone else having trouble watching the above video? I signed up for Instagram just to watch it & it still won't play for me!

Nice cruise, Scott. I didn't see replacing the DoD lifters on your list. ;)


Capt'n Moorgone
Mike Moor
Angola,IN
(105 posts)

Registered:
11/20/2008 07:05PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB 300 Buick

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Capt'n Moorgone
Date: January 30, 2017 06:05PM

Video played for me OK.

Scott didn't mention the new steering wheel! Looks sweet. Smaller wheel will need EPS, LOL

Mike


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: January 30, 2017 08:55PM

Hey guys, thanks for spending my money and scheduling my time!😁

I know you guys are busting my chops but it brings up a couple points. I think most guys with very limited time have to prioritize their time and pick their projects carefully. For me, two out of the four were wife driven which jumps it pretty far up the list. Another is a sorting out task and the last seems to fit into what I'm doing with the rest. So these are the top priority tasks for ME at this point. The car will be much better when these are in place. On the other hand I really want to get to work on the suspension and it will be my top priority starting this year. I think I most of the decisions are made at this point.

Carl, I really want to get rid of that cam but the car does really well in spite of it....it can stay for now. Mike, same with EPS, I'll have it on my car but I'll need to wait for now.

What have you guys been up to?


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(817 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: January 31, 2017 09:10AM

Scott, I'm impressed with your craftsmanship and progress, keep up the good work. Question is,"What will you do when you complete the major and minor portions of this build?" You cannot just "QUIT". The tweeks are what keep your interest and provides satisfaction for a job well done! ;-)


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3235 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 31, 2017 09:26AM

I spent 12 hours Saturday working on the TR6 ChumpCar race car with Max, Tim, Daryl, & the rest of the team.

Mikey is fixing to be knee deep in a secret project with his brother, Al, it seems.

I know the cam is is fine, Scott, but friends don't let friends drive with DoD lifters in their engines! ;)

http://image.superchevy.com/f/101362120+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/07-ls-engine-dod-lifters.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 09:38AM by MGBV8.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: January 31, 2017 10:42AM

Quote:

"What will you do when you complete the major and minor portions of this build?" You cannot just "QUIT".

Thanks Kelly! I'm looking out probably to 4 or 5 years before I reach that point. Who knows what will happen in during that time. If nothing else after I retire I suspect I'll go back and redo some of the fabrication tasks to make them look a little better. I've actually been thinking lately that at some point I'll document some of the things I've done...sort of an owner's manual for the next guy that I'll keep with the car. I'll never quit playing with the car, that's for sure.

Quote:

I spent 12 hours Saturday working on the TR6 ChumpCar race car with Max, Tim, Daryl, & the rest of the team.

Mikey is fixing to be knee deep in a secret project with his brother, Al, it seems.

I know the cam is is fine, Scott, but friends don't let friends drive with DoD lifters in their engines! ;)

Wow, you've been busy! Mike mentioned he might be assisting Al with something.

If it makes you feel any better, I have an LS1 cam (from Calvin) and a set of LS6 springs sitting on the shelf waiting to go into the motor. As you know it's an involved task especially when it comes to tuning the engine for the changes.

Did you try going directly to Instagram to view the video?

Try this URL after you fix it up: https :// www.instagram.com/p/BOxpIahgq3l/

I'm able to get to it from multiple machines including my work laptop which is really locked down.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3235 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: January 31, 2017 11:11AM

With XP? :) Turns out the video will run in Chrome, but not Firefox on my XP machine.

Slick starter solution!


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(180 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: mstemp
Date: March 21, 2017 06:16PM

Just was thinking about how the TVR's used forward facing exhaust header/manifolds. Would this be an option with the LS series engines into the MGB? Flowtech has the ones below available and thought it might be possible, but unlikely.

[www.jegs.com]



Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: March 22, 2017 09:33PM

Quote:
Just was thinking about how the TVR's used forward facing exhaust header/manifolds. Would this be an option with the LS series engines into the MGB? Flowtech has the ones below available and thought it might be possible, but unlikely. 

Hi Mike,

I'll give you my opinion. If you have your heart set on it you probably can get them to work but there are going to be a lot of compromises to make along the way. There isn't an over abundance of room in the B engine bay with an LS engine in it. It looks like the collector end of that particular set is going to sit pretty far forward and I'd be worried about getting the bonnet closed with them in place. It would be an interesting exercise to route the exhaust too. You'd probably have to go through the front of the inner fender and then up and over the shocks before going under the car with it. You would be going under the crossmember otherwise. Accessory drive routing would be another fun exercise. Again, I think it's doable for a motivated individual and I'd enjoy watching someone try it especially if a turbo was part of the equation.

This is my opinion again but from an aesthetic point of view (this is hard for me to put into words) I think it looks unfinished or like the guy gave up and just threw an exhaust on it. In my favorite MGB conversions, the engine looks like it belongs there and this approach doesn't quite do it for me. Others may disagree.


mstemp
Mike Stemp
Calgary, Canada
(180 posts)

Registered:
11/25/2009 07:18AM

Main British Car:
1980 MGB Rover 4.6L

Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: mstemp
Date: March 23, 2017 11:03AM

Scott,

Yes aesthetically not the best, just thought it may be possible. I see one of the biggest obstacles to any conversion the fabrication required. Had hoped those headers might remove one of the major obstacles. (Besides the mounts & potential RB clearances).

Maybe you should market headers Scott!


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5354 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 23, 2017 11:10AM

I concur. This type exhaust will put quite a bit more heat in the engine bay, and up close to the hood as well where it could get the paint hot enough to bubble under the wrong conditions. It also introduces a fairly significant risk of skin burns if the hood is open. Routing over the shock would be pretty difficult and under the crossmember cuts ground clearance significantly. It could probably be done, but not all that can be done should be done.

Jim


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(499 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: March 23, 2017 12:29PM

Mike,

Are you considering an LS swap?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5354 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: March 23, 2017 08:07PM

Saturday I think we will be junkyarding for an LS4. Let you know how that goes.

Jim
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