MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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Capt'n Moorgone
Mike Moor
Angola,IN
(111 posts)

Registered:
11/20/2008 07:05PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB 300 Buick

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Capt'n Moorgone
Date: May 21, 2015 06:28PM

Scott,
It's amazing how smooth that thing runs. You can't even tell it's running ,other than the belts. My shakes a least a little bit! Man, that is going to be one sweet ride!
Mike


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(530 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: May 22, 2015 12:11PM

Hey Mike

Thanks and good eye! Yeah, even the vent tube above the intake doesn't seem to be moving and it's just hanging there. I'm anxious to get it all together.

How was Carlisle?


G.R.
G.R. Weltmer

(25 posts)

Registered:
08/18/2010 05:24PM

Main British Car:


Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: G.R.
Date: May 26, 2015 12:30PM

Looking great! I dint see an IAT sensor. does your combo need one, or did I miss where you have it going into your piping?


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(530 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: May 26, 2015 09:36PM

Quote:
Looking great! I dint see an IAT sensor. does your combo need one, or did I miss where you have it going into your piping?

G.R.,

Thanks! The IAT is built into the MAF assembly. It actually works too!

Guess I'll do an update while I'm here. First I'll start with a few details of what's been consuming my garage time over the past few weeks. This first picture shows some of the details on the passenger side of the accessory drive assembly.

LS4PSBracketAssembly.jpg

Next is the driver's side.

LS4DSBracketDetails.jpg

Then the lower bracket which sits under and below the water pump. Sorry about the quality.

IMG_0145.JPG

You can see the brackets still look pretty rough. I had hoped to get them smoothed out and painted before the meet, and I still might, but there are other things to do that are of a higher priority at the moment. They do seem to function so far.

So I got the radiator installed over the weekend and finally got the LS4 fully warmed up. Here is another video showing part of that event. I used my phone this time and the quality is slightly better.



I got a data log of the whole event which I finally got a chance to look at this evening. I'm pretty pleased. It appears it did go into closed loop. All the sensors seem to be giving reasonable data. My VSS even works! I got it up to about 4500 RPM and the belts stayed in place. The cooling fan cycled a few times which was good to hear. The Costanzo garage was a pretty happy place all things considered.

So my list of issues to sort out is starting to grow. This is expected. First, I've got a leak in one of my brake lines. That one is frustrating because it shouldn't have happened. Second, and I always planned on this, but I need to get the parameters adjusted and the PCM flashed a couple more times before the meet. I need to get it on the road and get some good logs first. Third, and this one could involve some major time, my clutch is making some noise when I engage it. I haven't done any systematic troubleshooting yet but that will be on the top of the list next weekend. Let's hope the motor doesn't have to come out.

I'll close with a picture of the motor cooling down.

LS4CurrentEngineBay.jpg

My air filter won't fit so I need to go to plan B. This is a temporary setup to get me through the summer. I intend on doing an over the radiator air inlet but that will require some fiberglass work that I will tackle this winter. Bit by bit.


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 27, 2015 09:38AM

Very nice sounding V6 er I mean V8 upgrade ;) . Love the sound of an LS!

Looks packed in there very nicely Scott. Can't wait to see it in Indy!!

An FYI which you may already know, these LS engines love to run around 205 to 215 temps so don't think you are over heating in that temp range.

Just recently installed my 83 to 85 Dodge Caravan fan in my TR6, took out my Summit racing fan. What a huge difference in air flow, cooling, and much more quiet sounding. After turning the engine off, the fan ran 2/3rds less time before turning off. Very happy with a junkyard fan of $42 bucks.


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(687 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: May 27, 2015 10:49AM

The good OEM fans are head and shoulders better than any of the aftermarket ones - can't imagine why anyone spends the money on them. I have a friend that built a Factory 5 Cobra coupe kit and it was always overheating with the aftermarket fan supplied in the kit. I had an extra 19" electric fan from a late model Mustang that I gave him and the longest the fan ever runs is about 40 seconds and that is when it is really hot outside. The motor has so much torque that it almost tears out of your hands on start up if you are holding it for a test. You DEFINITELY need a 70+ amp relay to run it though.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 27, 2015 11:41AM

How much are those Caravan fans new? I was out at the junkyard the other day and it looked like they are becoming real popular, seemed like any Caravan that wasn't bashed in the front was missing the fan. They didn't look that easy to remove either, totally closed in by everything. I bought dual Camaro fans for about $150 brand new and wonder if the Caravan fan might be similar?

I did pick up a handful of Volvo fan relays while I was there.

Jim



74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 27, 2015 05:31PM

Jim B,

I don't know what the Caravan fan runs for a new one. To take one out, a non smashed front 83 to 85 single 16" Caravan fan, it is only four bolts that hold it in, and cut the wire harness passed the plug. Maybe took all of 10 to 15 minutes to take one out. I took two of them out in a Pick & Pull and was cashed out at the door in 1/2 hour.

Jim B if you want one, next time I'm at pick & pull I'll pick one up for ya!


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 27, 2015 05:37PM

Sorry for the high jacked thread Scott........I will be bringing my HP tuners software to Indy....we can get a reading and possibly change stuff for you on your tune. Just need to pay for the credits to run your engine on it....small dollars!! You just need your diagnostic port installed in your wiring. My lap top can do the rest.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(530 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: May 27, 2015 08:58PM

Thanks Calvin! The fan discussion is not a hijack at all.....very relevant. The temperature settled at a steady 200 once the motor got fully warmed up. It's a long story but I need to tweak my fan shroud because one of the corners of the radiator is not covered by it. The radiator I'm using is small so everything needs to be about perfect to be successful with it. I'm using a fan from a late 90s Corolla. It's very compact and moves a lot of air. On a hot day when it's running and I put my foot on the ground to get out of the car, I can feel a nice warm breeze on my ankle as air is blown out from under the car. I'm going to start with what I've got and go from there. I have a bit of work left to get the radiator to where I want it.

I really appreciate your offer to play with the tune and I may take you up on it. Let's see how things unfold over the next couple of weeks and I'll let you know and we can work out the logistics to make it happen. Oh, I do have a diagnostic port installed! :)

Looking forward to seeing you in Indy!


Dan B
Dan Blackwood
South Charleston, WV
(952 posts)

Registered:
11/06/2007 01:55PM

Main British Car:
1966 TR4A, 1980 TR7 Multiport EFI MegaSquirt on the TR4A. Lexus V8 pl

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Dan B
Date: May 27, 2015 10:05PM

I bought the new Caravan fan we are using in the TR7 at Advance for about $90. I think it was about a 94 model


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 28, 2015 12:11AM

[www.autopartswarehouse.com]


I PMed Jim B with this link of a new 94 caravan replacement fan. This is a good price including shipping and no tax depending on where you live.

I think I will go to the Pick & Pull's around here and pick up a few for others. There are probably 6 main Pick & Pulls within a 30 mile radius from where I live. At one alone had 7 94 to 96 Dodge Caravan at their place. Should be able to score on a few of them. Very easy to pull out and easy to install cutting down shroud to fit.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5657 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 28, 2015 09:33AM

Calvin, if you can bring one to Indy I'd like to get one to put in the Chump car, since we don't have a fan for it yet.

Jim


74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 29, 2015 09:23AM

Jim B,

Going out this morning to score some fans and maybe some more electric power steering system parts. I will bring some fans to Indy!.....:) I want to have extras before they are harder to get.


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(687 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: May 29, 2015 10:00AM

Guys, don't forget the Taurus and Volvo fans. The Volvo's are nearly the same fan as the Taurus but they have a nifty mounting flange built in. They are at least as powerful as the Caravan favs.

Taurus fan.jpg

volvofan2.jpg

Volvo_front.jpg

Volvo on shroud.jpg



74ls1tr6
Calvin Grannis
Elk Grove,CA
(1145 posts)

Registered:
11/10/2007 10:05AM

Main British Car:
74 TR6 / 71 MGB GT TR6/Ls1 71 MGB GT/Ls1

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: 74ls1tr6
Date: May 29, 2015 10:25AM

Jim S,

What year Volvo ,model, for fan (for a good fit)? Also any better year for Taurus fans? I can look today while I'm in Pick & Pull.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(530 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: May 29, 2015 10:58AM

Looks like the Volvo fan is about 16" in diameter and they come in 92-98 S70, 940, 740's according to a Fiero site. If it's thin enough it would work well on my shroud.


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(687 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: May 29, 2015 11:49AM

I measured the Volvo fan I have (don't remember which model it came from but I think they are all about the same). The blade diameter is 15 1/4", the diameter of the mounting flange is 17 1/4" and the mounting bolt circle is 16 3/4". From the mounting face to the tip of the motor is 3 1/4" as close as I could measure it. Rob Ficalora has one on his car and he seems to like the way it cools the car in Houston.

I used the Taurus fan on my car because it was slightly larger and felt like it had slightly more airflow doing the "blow it in your face" test even though it was more difficult to mount in the shroud.


Jim Stabe
Jim Stabe
San Diego, Ca
(687 posts)

Registered:
02/28/2009 10:01AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB Roadster 350 LT1 Chevy

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Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Jim Stabe
Date: May 29, 2015 12:54PM

If you have the room you should also look at a Lincoln Mk VIII fan (same size as the 01-04 SVT Mustang fan I mentioned above). It has a blade diameter of 18" and a housing diameter of 19" and is rumored to flow 3500 cfm on low speed and 4500 cfm on high. I have one but it was a tad too tall for my car but it will definitely blow you wig off, make sure you have a good grip when you hold it for a test. Needs a BIG relay, BIG wires and an uprated alternator. Here is a comparison of the Mk VII and a Taurus and a 01-04 Mustang fan.

MarkVIII fan vs Taurus fan.jpg

01 - 04 Mustang fan dimensions.jpg

01 - 04 Mustang fan.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2015 12:56PM by Jim Stabe.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(530 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: June 02, 2015 07:18PM

I thought I'd do yet another small update. It was a good weekend.

The first thing I did was look into the clutch issue I mentioned in my last update. I didn't describe it correctly last time. The issue/noise occurred when the clutch pedal was depressed. The noise, which was best described as a tapping sound, happened when resting a foot on the pedal and continued as it was pressed to the floor. My first thought was throw out bearing but that was hard to believe. Everything inside the bellhousing is new except for the clutch fork and pivot ball. Even the input bearing retainer is new. Anyway, I remembered that one of the starter bolts was pretty close to the pressure plate bolts so I needed to check there first. Sure enough, this is what I found.

LS4FlywheelBoltInterfereance.jpg

If you look closely you can see where it was hitting at the bottom edge. It was a relief to realize the transmission didn't have to come out. I'm not overjoyed to have to clearance the bolts in place. I would have preferred to pull them out, grind the ends, ensure they all weigh the same and reinstall. I tried to grind them the same by eye so the weight variance is hopefully small. This approach greatly increases the odds of making Indy so we're going with it. Next time the engine comes out this will be attended to the right way.

The other issue I mentioned was a leaking brake union. So I thought, "Let me try to tighten it one more time." I did and sure enough, the leak stopped and I suddenly had a firm pedal. Like I said, it was a good weekend.

That was two items off the "sorting out" list and what I thought would consume at least an entire weekend ended up only taking a couple of hours. So I start up the car to test the clutch "fix" and was very pleased to hear silence when depressing the clutch pedal. I was making plans to maybe put the car down on the ground and take the first drive around the block when I heard a new, unusual noise. This is what I found.

LS4BeltDamage.jpg

Take two items off the "sorting out" list and add another to it! :) This is the smaller, inside belt that drives the jack shaft. Obviously there was a misalignment there. I literally measured the alignment at least 5 times. It's hard to describe but it is difficult to get an accurate measurement. You'd think after 5 times I would have gotten it right though. I spent another 30 minutes looking at it, put the new belt on and eyed it up to finally see the misalignment. So everything needs to come forward about 3 mm to get the inner pulley on the jack shaft to line up with the crank pulley. It actually is an easy fix and the other good thing is it happened in the garage.

All of the above items are builder errors, no one to blame but him. :)

Artie will be coming in this Thursday evening and we'll spend Friday through Sunday on the car. We will get the front of the motor put back together, install the throttle pedal and take it out for a short drive. If nothing else pops up the next steps are to fabricate some radiator ducting, install the new fuel pump, permanently install the PCM, and do other minor reassembly tasks and checks. Those are the only items left I'm aware of at the moment. With any kind of luck we should be able to put some miles on it before Artie leaves.

That's all for now.
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