MG Sports Cars

Played with the car yesterday and made further progress. It's in the tedious phase making sure everything fits right. Replaced the front cross member pads with polyurethane. Also put the starter on to make sure there were no surprises there. As I mentioned before, it is tight but at this point it does fit with no further modification to the firewall. I think one more fitting session should answer the remaining questions about the steering and where the final position of the motor will be. No photos as there really isn't anything new show at this point.

I've only owned one Chevy engine in my life and know nothing of LS engines, but I really enjoy this thread. I wish more of us had done this, a lot of good information.


Paul

Well, got a question answered last night. :)



This is the steering, FYI.

Here are a couple of pics of my ls1 and the steering shaft

Hello Scott my name is Bill G I did this swap myself last winter I went with a ls1 4.8 I also went with edelbrocks carb conversion I only use the crank and cam sensors my mgb is a chrome bumper early 74 so I had cutting also what I did was to raise the body off the crossmember by 2 inches and made rear shackles 2 inches longer I wanted that stance and look I am not into slamming it to the ground the roads where I live wouldn't allow it anyways I did not want a hood scoop but I had to go with one by raising it I did not have to cut the crossmember up the steering shaft is a bi%$# but it can be done I noticed someone suggested the block hugger headers that's what I bought I was going to buy the ones you totally build but the tech at jegs said buy the huggers and cut the flange off and reangle it and weld it why weld 15 spots when you can weld 4 instead glad I did that I went with a turbo 350 auto because of 4 back surgeries and a bad left leg I raised the tunnel by one inch worked great I did not have to move the rear cross member just change the mount even the drive shaft is the exact same length I bought new springs all the way around added 2 extra on the rears also traction bars and I made a panhard back to the steering shaft I had to lift my motor just a little from where I had it and weld 2 flanges on that header just ask me anything you want I will help you any way I can good luck

Honestly I would like to see what it looks like with the engine a little farther forward. I always felt that the straighter the steering shaft the better, and would rather lower the rack than add universal joints.

Jim

Bill,

Thanks for the feedback! I'm finding that pictures can be difficult to interpret sometimes but it appears that my engine might be about an inch lower and about an inch further back than you are so I'm going to have to lower my steering shaft about an inch or inch and a half to gain clearance.

Jim,

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, of course I would have preferred to not do any modifications. :) The steering issue is not unexpected at all. My plans for this project hinge on the motor being positioned where it is in the above picture so that won't be changing. I'll be using another u-joint down by the rack.

Actually had the opportunity to play with the car two nights in a row! Last night I got the motor into position finally. Didn't get any pictures but I'm very pleased with the way it's fitting. Hope to actually start on the mounts this weekend.

Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!

Scott, I kinda like the 2 ujoint steering better because you can rotate the rack or shim to change the angle of the shaft.. You can do the lower ujoint without welding by grinding flats and using 17mm DD Jeep pinch to 3/4" DD lower joint, 3/4"DD shaft to 3/4" 48 spline MGB upper joint. Plus the aftermarket ujoints are a lot smaller. There is a thread on the Mgexperience board I'll try to find. Found it: [www.mgexp.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 01:40PM by mgb260.

Good advice Jim. I've been looking at the Sweet u-joints as they look very compact. I am currently using a Borgeson u-joint as a direct replacement for the stock u-joint but I like the idea of using a DD shaft in the middle...phasing the two u-joints should be a no brainer and much easier to implement too.

Sweet also makes a 3/4"-48 that works on stock MGB steering columns and shafts (401-51010), it's what I used at the firewall. This is a little unusual but it has been done, Sweet universals can be disassembled like a drive shaft universal and the ends swapped to connect pretty much any kind or size shafts together. I only mention this to point out there is not much limit to what you can do but for anybody who decides to try this, keep in mind the needles are rather small and the caps can easily be damaged in putting them back together. The 1" Firewall bearing I used is an actual roller bearing with a rubber seal and is available from Granger (4X730). Be advised however the stock 1" shaft after being compressed to a DD is no longer 1" and the diameter has to be reduced a few thousands of an inch. Yes, there are probably much easier ways to do your steering but I liked the way it looked.



Paul





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 04:36PM by pspeaks.

Quote:

Sweet also makes a 3/4"-48 that works on stock MGB steering columns and shafts (401-51010).

Appreciate it Paul!

Uni-steer and Flaming River make the lower joint you need or you can shim the stub at the rack and weld 3/4" round to 3/4" DD. The MG shaft is slightly smaller than 3/4". That is why I recommended the 17MM DD Jeep pinch to 3/4" DD. You could also use the Borgeson MGB 48 spline to 3/4" DD vibration damper ujoint.. Speedway Motors carries the DD shaft. Rig it up with wooden dowels first and it will be perfect.

Yes, I made all my shafts out of 3/4 dowel rods first and then transferred that to steel.


Paul

I know Scott has picked his motor mounts. Here's another mount option.

[liquidironindustries.com]

Made more progress this past weekend. Measured for the motor mounts and cut the frame mounts. Next step is to assemble the mounts and weld them to the "frame" rails. I keep mentioning that there are a lot of details and this is not an exception. I'm going to wait until I actually complete a task before I share the details so I don't pass on misinformation as some of the details are in flux until the task is actually completed.

I don't think I shared a picture of the engine/transmission combination yet so here it is.



I measured the steering shaft and got about .730". Jim N., I know you are recommending the 17 mm DD u-joint but after considering things, I'm going to do something different. (What else is new :) ). I believe I'll be going with a 3/4" DD u-joint mainly because I have some concerns with how the 17 mm pinch u-joint is going to fit with the clearances I have. I'll shim it with .01" shims.

I'm still making good progress and having lots of fun...I'm trying to make sure I get something done every week. Also still very excited about the big changes this will be making to my car.

If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.

Not sure this is the right place to post this but I thought this might interest some of you. The following pictures will give you an idea of how a RWD car/truck motor (4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0) might fit in a B with the same set back I'm trying to achieve with my LS4. Although it may seem like it to some of you, I'm NOT bashing those motors. They have been and are successfully used in MGBs regularly. I suspect there will be many more of them used in B conversions in the future rather than the LS4. Also, the majority of them will not be placed as far back as I'm going with the LS4 and therefore the firewall mods won't be nearly as extensive as depicted here.

Anyway, what got me thinking about this is the fact that you can see much of the SBC bellhousing bolt pattern on the LS4 block so it illustrates some of the differences quite well in these views.

I think it's pretty obvious but the red marks are the large bellhousing bolt/dowel holes and the green is roughly what would need to be removed (in my estimation so take with a grain of salt) to accommodate the larger bellhousing if the motor were set back this far.

a 98 Camaro steering has a nice set of ujoints, diameter is smallish and good for high angle change. look how chevy packaged the camaro steering

More progress this weekend. I decided to attack the steering before the motor mounts as I needed to know where the steering ended up before positioning the motor mounts. I went with the Sweet steering u-joints. 3/4" 48 Spline for the steering column end and 3/4" DD for the remainder. I took the advice from Jim and Paul and used a 3/4" wood dowel for fabrication....excellent idea! Here is the result.



I lowered the steering a little less than 2" at the firewall. It actually wasn't very difficult to do. I modified the pinion shaft myself. Took my time and the u-joint is very snug with no play. I need to order a DD shaft, finish the set screw modifications for the u-joints and weld the cone into the firewall. FYI, the DD shaft will be a hair less than 14" long. I believe this is the easiest approach to the steering issue. I really wanted to keep the rack in the factory location and messing with the rack mounts to lower the stock shaft looked time consuming. Ignore the brake lines, they will all be replaced and rerouted before I put the car back on the road. You can see the position of the steering wheel after the lowering here.



It raised the rim of the wheel about an inch or so.

There is a fairly big hole from trimming the passenger side firewall but it really is pretty much dead space from the perspective of usable space in the foot well. You can see from this shot what I mean.



So motor mounts should be next and then the exhaust. I figure if I can have those tasks completed by early January I should be about where I need to be for the V8 Meet....we will see.

Scott. Good Work! You could still rotate lower end up or down if needed for clearance without moving the rack too much. Use angled washers for angle iron on upper and lower rack mount with longer bolts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 12:33PM by mgb260.

I'm slow but getting there inch by inch. Just about got the motor mounts there. This first picture shows the mounts tacked to the "frame rails".



I need to remove the passenger side mount and shorten it so the mounting hole sits closer to the frame. I should be able to complete fabricating the mounts on the engine side once that is complete. In the following pictures, the engine is positioned where it will live going forward. This first shot shows the clearance on the pulley. I was actually able to get a belt between the rack and the pulley so that was good.



This next picture illustrates, I think, just how compact the LS blocks are.



This view makes the B engine bay look big front to back. It fills the bay up side to side, that's for sure, but it does fit. As you can see in the next picture, there is plenty of room for the header pipe and spark plug wire now. Moving the steering shaft down was well worth doing.



I should have a few days/evenings to work during the holidays so I'll keep plugging away at it. I hope to order my header pipe today.

Merry Christmas everyone!