MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

Go to Thread: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicLog In
Goto Page: PreviousFirst...4567891011121314...LastNext
Current Page: 9 of 22


MGBGT?
Artie Clark
Huntington Station, New York
(20 posts)

Registered:
05/01/2014 02:14PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB Roadster Rover 3.5L V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBGT?
Date: July 01, 2014 10:35AM

Lookin' good Scott! 17 days until I'm there to help...


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 02, 2014 06:20AM

Looking forward to it Artie! Continuing to make slow but steady progress.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 07, 2014 12:41PM

Made more progress over the last two weeks. I'm tackling easier, less time consuming things now so more tasks are getting done. The first set of pictures show the engine in place with the rebuilt firewall.

LS4CompletedFWOverhead.jpg

LS4CompletedFWSideViews.jpg

I still have a few minor things to complete in the engine bay but the list is getting pretty small. We are going to paint it when Artie gets here so next weekend will focus on getting ready for that.

I moved to the engine preparation tasks this past weekend. I swapped the valve covers from side to side. I did this so the vent lines on each valve cover matched up with the flipped intake manifold. I've had the engine for over a year but never opened it up. I was pleased with what I saw when I removed the first valve cover.

LS4ValveCoverRemoved.jpg

I also replaced the timing cover. The main reason I did this was the original LS4 timing cover has the cam sensor positioned 180 degrees from the position of the RWD LS motors. Obviously, the signal from the cam sprocket reluctor will occur at a different time. I did a lot of investigation but couldn't tell if the 0411 looks at a rising edge, falling edge or just an edge and didn't want to take the chance of finding out the LS4 cover doesn't work when everything was together. An added benefit is the water pump fits without having to modify the timing cover.

LS4TimingCoverWaterPump.jpg

Had other good news as well. First, I got my PCM back from Sinister Performance. Once everything is together, it should run. He based the tune off of 2001 Camaro/Firebird code. The second bit of news is I measured my new bell housing and it just meets spec. The face of the bell housing was out of parallel .005" and the bore just a shade less than .005".....all good.

The crankshaft has a locating bushing for the converter and I'm in the process of trying to remove it so I can install my pilot bearing. I believe I need a bigger slide hammer...it is a b!tch to get out of there....always something! :) Let me know if you have any questions.

Scott


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(1081 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: July 07, 2014 04:54PM

Quote:
I believe I need a bigger slide hammer...it is a b!tch to get out of there....


Have you tried the grease and pilot shaft trick....ie pack the bearing cavity with grease insert, a pilot shaft of suitable diameter and hit the shaft hard with a hammer - hydraulic pressure should pop out the bearing.


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(930 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: July 07, 2014 06:09PM

alternately, some people use Ivory Soap rather than grease and the clean-up is easier. same principle, just not as messy. Once you are successful. pour yourself a Dickel, job well done :-)


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 07, 2014 07:33PM

Graham, Kelly

Thank you for the advice. I'm reading from several sources that there is an oil galley plug in the end of the crank in an LS motor. I can feel it if I stick my finger into the crank. It's sheet metal and there is a good chance it will collapse if I tried the grease/soap approach unfortunately. I just got back from an Autozone where I rented a big honkin slide hammer and a fitting made specifically for removing pilot bushings. I think this should do a bit better than my Harbor Freight POS.

I'm a firm believer in any excuse for a Dickel by the way! :)

Scott


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1978 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: mgb260
Date: July 14, 2014 07:00AM

Scott, A couple of questions. Is that the Camaro/Firebird water pump? Is your new bellhousing a 3.1 like the old one? You are getting closer all the time!



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3748 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 14, 2014 09:30AM

Great call, Scott.

Apparently, some of the LS variants (maybe most) have gun drilled cranks. Pretty obvious if the crank is out of the engine (unlike Scott's). That soft plug in the back keeps the oil in the engine. ;) Therefore, the hydraulic method using grease, Ivory Soap, bread, etc. cannot be used.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 14, 2014 10:39AM

Jim,

I'm using the shortest pump available. It's from, I believe, an LS2 Corvette/GTO/Cadillac. The bellhousing is from a 94 S-10 2.2, same as the first bellhousing I used. I will have to notch the bellhousing for the starter pinion but it will only take about a 1/4" notch in the edge. I measured it this weekend but didn't cut it yet. I'll get some pictures eventually.

I did get the bushing out of the crank. It was actually easy with the proper tools. Took less than 5 minutes. Carl, I'll try get a picture but after looking at the "plug", it may not actually have one. It's difficult to tell. I wasn't going to take the chance with the hydraulic method though....that would have been a huge mess if things went bad.

Lot's of stuff going on work and car wise at the moment but I hope to have the motor "permanently" installed at the end of week after next when Artie is here. We will see.


kstevusa
kelly stevenson
Southern Middle Tennessee
(930 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 09:37AM

Main British Car:
2003 Jaguar XK8 Coupe 4.2L DOHC/ VVT / 6sp. AT

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: kstevusa
Date: July 14, 2014 11:10AM

Fred, Barney and I were discussing the "Plug" and agreed the plug idea was rubbish. another Bowtie secret we had not heard of. Guess we would have screwed up the job and used the "old way" All the progress has left us dinosaurs in the muck. Guess that's why our engines are conventional. Keep up the good work and hope to see you in CS. We are traveling in "the Big Silver Bird"


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 14, 2014 11:24AM

Kelley,

If you were using an LS you would have researched it and come up with the same approach I'm quite sure. :) I don't think of anyone in our group as a "dinosaur".....it's a bunch of really smart people actually.

I won't be going to CS unfortunately....I am going to miss not seeing everyone.


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: July 29, 2014 08:32PM

Lots of stuff happened over the last couple of weeks. I'll try to document the highlights here. First, Artie came in and was a huge help. His strengths complement mine and we work really well together. I was going at it pretty good before he showed up trying to get the engine bay ready. So the first thing we did was do one final trial fitting to make sure the motor went in with no issues. Good thing we did because we had to make a few adjustments to the motor mount gussets that were added to the upper part of the mounts. Here are a couple of pictures of the motor going in and how the radiator works with the position of the motor.

LS4Fitting.jpg

LS4Fitting2 .jpg

One thing Artie did that I'll always be thankful for is to talk me into painting the engine bay. I was so focused on getting the mechanical side done that I didn't give it the thought it deserved. I hate to admit it but I was strongly considering a sponge brush and some Rust-Oleum. :) Anyway, Artie talked me down from that cliff. Here's a picture of the progression. One thing I didn't capture, unfortunately, was how hard Artie worked on cleaning up the engine bay. You can see the result of his hard work in the first shot below.

LS4EngineBayPaint.jpg

You can't tell very well from the pictures but it looks really good.

Artie also spent several hours cleaning up the engine. You can see from the first picture below how good it looks. I can't wait to see it in the car. The next couple of shots show the end of the crank (to complete the discussion from a previous post although you can't see in the hole very well) and the new pilot bushing installed.

LS4EngineAngles.jpg

So where do we stand at this point? In a pretty good place I think, all things considered. The car is actually going back together. We did encounter an issue with the pressure plate that slowed things down and prevented us from getting the engine installed. I'll go into some detail in my next post but I need to confirm a few things before discussing it here.

Things may slow down a bit because I promised my wife I'd back off a little after last week. For what it's worth, I'm estimating about another 40 hrs. give or take to get the car back on the road. Lots of little details left. I couldn't be more pleased with how things are progressing.

Let me know if you have any questions.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3748 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
79 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: July 29, 2014 09:47PM

Way to go, Artie! That clean engine bay will make all the difference. Just don't go by mine. :)

40 hours? Sounds like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, Scott!


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5812 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: July 30, 2014 09:47AM

That looks really good. You are going to be amazed at the difference.

Jim


pspeaks
Paul Speaks
Dallas, Texas
(698 posts)

Registered:
07/20/2009 06:40PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: pspeaks
Date: August 02, 2014 12:23PM

Scott, as a Ford guy, I've only owned one Chevy engine in my life, I know absolutely nothing about the LS series, but as an amateur fabricator and unofficial student of engineering, I totally enjoy this thread. Thank you for sharing it with us!

Paul



Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: August 03, 2014 08:25AM

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Carl, I'm really bad at estimating time so don't hold me to 40 hrs. The end is in sight though.

Paul, glad you are enjoying it. One good thing about sharing it here is the audience, for the most part, understands the need/desire we have to do projects like this. My wife does not get it at all! :)

Scott


pspeaks
Paul Speaks
Dallas, Texas
(698 posts)

Registered:
07/20/2009 06:40PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: pspeaks
Date: August 03, 2014 05:12PM

After installing the drive shaft and crawling out from under my GT, my buddy who owns the shop where it was done said "I would never have believed you could do it". After seeing the pictures and reading the posts, I can only imagine the challenges you face. Job well done!!!


Paul


Charles
Charles Long
McDonald, TN
(177 posts)

Registered:
09/15/2013 08:54AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB V6 1994 Camaro 3.4L 60V6

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Charles
Date: August 04, 2014 07:12PM

I too have enjoyed following your time building your new ride, thanks for sharing. After missing CS you will need to come on down to Townsend and let some of us LOOK,TOUCH and FEEL. You will enjoy tooling around and smelling the new burn off.


Charles


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: August 04, 2014 08:03PM

Thanks Charles! I've had my room booked since June and I'm going to try to make it. I may come even if the car isn't done.

Paul, I'd enjoy seeing pictures of your work. :)


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(541 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: LS4 Into an MGB
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: August 06, 2014 09:42PM

I've been thinking about the point Paul made about the challenges we face during these projects. To me it seems like every problem is a series of smaller problems and the decisions you make to solve them are compromises that may create other problems down the road. The problem solving is one of the things I like most about the process. It is about impossible to document every problem in detail...I think it could end up being too much information. Anyway, this prompted me to discuss the flywheel/clutch in a bit of detail. Hopefully it won't be too boring. :) The components that go into it require lots of decisions especially since there are no "stock" components that were used on the LS4. It only came with an automatic. So, in my mind at least, there are probably more opportunities to screw up here than any other sub-assembly I'll be dealing with.

I had a couple of long conversations with LSC Performance, who made my flywheel, about what I needed. I sent along an S-10 flywheel for the starter ring gear and as a basic example of what was needed. For some reason, I had it in my mind that it needed to be a bit thicker than the sample flywheel and we discussed this. LSC recommended we just duplicate the dimensions of the S-10 unit and I decided to take his advice. Luckily, it seems to have been the right decision. Based upon how I implemented the starter mount, I have about an 1/8" or so of wiggle room. If I had gone thicker than that I would have had to modify the bellhousing more than I would have wanted to. Any thinner and it would have interfered with the starter mount. As it stands now it is just about right. Speaking of the starter and bellhousing, here is a picture of the modification to the bellhousing that was needed to account for the starter pinion. It isn't too bad.

LS4BellhousingMod.jpg

As for the clutch, here are some pictures of what I went with.

LS4Disc.jpg

LS4PressurePlate.jpg

I got it from Ram Clutches. Dale Knapke recommended that I go with Centerforce and I called them first. Very disappointed with the response I got from them....as soon as I explained what I was looking for they couldn't wait to get me off the phone. I don't deal with companies that treat me like that. Anyway, I based the clutch on what would fit into a Fiero 2.8 V6. Since those guys have been building lots of HP into them over the years there seems to be more than a few choices available. I explained the horsepower/torque I could be getting out of the motor and how I expected to use the car and they recommended what you see here. Again, I wasn't sure how it would all fit into the bellhousing or how it would interact with the flywheel position and transmission input shaft/bearing retainer. It was one of those things that I was just going to have to try to see if it would work. I'm certainly not declaring success yet but after some initial measurements and a trial fitting of the bellhousing/transmission to the motor it appears that it is going to work as expected.

This brings me to the issue we ran into a couple of weeks ago with the pressure plate. I'm using stock pressure plate bolts I ordered new from a dealer. They are 8 MM X 1.25. It seems that GM uses the pressure plate bolts to locate the pressure plate on the flywheel in their "small" bellhousing models like what was used in the Fiero. As I was playing with it during the trial assembly I noticed a lot of play in the bolt holes in the pressure plate. When I measured I got about 8.9 MM. The bolts measured about 8 MM. It just didn't seem right to me. So I did a lot of investigation and couldn't come up with anything conclusive. I confirmed from several sources that I was, in fact, using the correct pressure plate bolts. When I talked with Ram they stated that they have sold hundreds of these pressure plates over the years and didn't have any issues with them. I finally went to a local parts store and measured a stock replacement pressure plate and came away with the same measurement. So it appears that is how the manufacturer designed these components. I'm still not overly happy with the situation. I fabricated some spacers to take up the slack.

LS4PPSpacers.jpg

What I'm going to do is mount the clutch both with and without the spacers and put a dial indicator on it in both cases. Then it will be one of those "decision" times again. :)

I think this is starting to get a little long so I'll end it here. Let me know if you have any questions.
Goto Page: PreviousFirst...4567891011121314...LastNext
Current Page: 9 of 22


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.