MG Sports Cars

Just need some opinions on this swap. I am building a 73 midget. I will be building a full tube chassis with a mustang II frontend and 8in rear axle. I am planning on using leaf springs to keep the cost down. I will be driving this car on a regular basis along with some drag and autocross. I want decent gas mileage and low repair cost. I have some motors sitting in the garage. I am debating on using a 302 w/ 4sp toploader, 302 / C4, or 2.3 turbo SVO /w T-5 trans. I know I can get some serious power from the 2.3. But I am very new to fuel injection and computers. With the 302, I can use a carb and very little hassles with setup. But the 302 is heavier than the 2.3. Want to here your opinions.

fuel injection is not difficult to do;

the biggest problem is the rpm,
mostly based on a VR-sensor with a 36-1 or 60-2 trigger wheel.

if you have this on the engine, you have 80% of the problems done,
else you have to build one on the poulie, and it's easier as it sounds.;

this is a set i made for the original triumph engine 1.5 for a Spitfire;

it was 7 euro for the bike-sprocket, 60 euro on machinery.

if you have this on the engine,
you basically need 4 more things;
water temp sensor
air temp sensor
tps sensor
lambda sensor

and that's it.

if you take an engine with a coil bobine with distribution,
you simply control de coil directly from de MS.
(that is preferred above EDIS, because i have seen a few
cars with performance drop, going from direct coil to edis,
somehow the EDIS cuts the engine at high rpms.
coils aren't that clever, they just keep on firing...)

and of course you will need a high pressure fuel-line,
what contains; fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, return line.

connect the VR-sensor to the MS,
ask a friend with a scoop to adjust the setup,
look for rpm on the laptop.
put a white marker on the top dead cylinder high
on the trigger wheel and sensor,
by looking at the tumbling of the valves or with a
screwdriver inside the engine.
connect the other sensors to the MS, but leave the lambda out.
get fuel pressure on the injectors (fuel relais),
connect the injectors, coil (and fan and more)
put in the MS what type of VR-sensor and wheel you have,
including the skipped teeth and offset,
(basically you have to tell the MS that your wheel has
36 teeth
and every 18 (4 cil), 12 (6 cil) or 9 teeth (8 cil) it has to
fire the ignition)

start the engine without spark-plugs,
if the engine is cranking, the coil will fire at 0 degrees,
adjust the timing until you have top dead aligned with the ignition gun,
so 0 degrees on the tables is 0 degrees on the engine.

then put fuel pressure on the injectors,
insert the spark plugs,
put the injectors a little to small in the MS and
fire it up..

I have done it a few times within 3 hours.
I build the MS for friends, have them put in the fuel lines
and mechanical stuff
and on a rainy Saturday morning we started wiring
and we had lift off after 3 hours.

just get yourself a good MegaSquirt
(I test them on my own car before I go to a friend)
and wire it one by one.

this one is just 2 weeks ago;
[www.pluisje.nl]
6 cil straight, direct coil, BMW-wiring,
we just removed the old computer and wired the MegaSquirt into
the connector.
[www.pluisje.nl]
it runs on the original computer and on the MegasSquirt computer
but with the MegaSquirt computer it has no rev limiter anymore
and you can put a (bi-) turbo on it now :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2008 05:18AM by pluisje.

Harry, I'm very familiar with the chassis on the '73 Midget. Since you are using a tube frame and Mustang II front your options are more open, but the car is small and you will be seriously intruding on the foot wells to install the 302 because of the length of that engine. If you ran an automatic trans that would help as you would need one less pedal, but still I think the driving position might be uncomfortable for anyone around 5'10" or taller. The 2.3 will be somewhat better, not quite as long, but it is a rather tall engine with the overhead cam, I feel certain that you'll have some major clearance issues with the hood as I did with my V6. The T5 will help drivability and economy, best choice these days for a transmission I think.
I think I'd use the 2.3 and keep the factory computer and sensors for a start. There will be some inputs that you need to install in the Midget and some that you will have to bypass, but in the end the computer really doesn't know what type of car it's in as long as the inputs are in range it will run ok. Get a Haynes manual for the car the 2.3 came from which will have most of the wirign diagrams you will need to integrate the wiring harness into the Miget body. You might wind up needing information from a factory book as I did for my Camaro engine, but that should be obtainable from you local Ford dealer if you ask nicely. I'll be glad to help and answer any questions I can about the installation problems you might run into.
Bill Young
Kansas City

Even that 2.3L Turbo will take up a lot of room. Here's one in a TR6:

[www.britishv8.org]

I have no problems with adding a hood scoop and running fender flares. This body needs a lot of repair work anyways. I am planning on running sidepipes. As for as the 2.3, I have a complete wire harness w/ computer from an SVO mustang. But the guy I got it from did not mark any of the wires or plugs. This car isn't my first car build. A few years ago I built a 59 Ford pickup from the ground up. The truck had a chevy subframe, 12 bolt posi (chevy), Chevy smallblock, and wiring from a donor car. I drove the truck for 2 years before I sold it. Nice truck!
I am kind of new to working with fords. All my other cars have always had simple ignition and carbs. I would be more comfortable with putting a V8 in this midget. But I think the car would be more all around fun with the turbo motor. The only thing I am lacking parts wise is an electric fuel pump and I have to either modify my tank or buy a fuel cell set up w/ a return line.

In the last couple of weeks I've added some very nice Spridgets to the Austin-Healey section of the Photo Gallery. If you haven't seen them, it's definitely worth a look.

You'll probably get a kick out of the vintage drag racing photos here... [www.britishv8.org]
but the thing I'd point out is that some really nice fiberglass body parts are available which make it feasible to capture the "bugeye" look even with the later Midget chassis, which is exactly what Phil Herrick showed at the bottom of that article.

If I were building a Spridget, however, I believe I'd follow Bruce Uchida's lead. Bruce actually installed a V8 in his Sprite, but he later decided to take it out in favor of a hot-rodded four cylinder engine. Spridgets are so lightweight, nimble, and balanced - and according to Bruce it's very hard to keep that winning combination with a V8's bulk. Here's what Bruce replaced his V8 with: [www.britishv8.org]

If Bruce's choice of engine doesn't impress you... if you want something more powerful... well, this turbocharged Mazda motor should be able to give your 2.3 Ford a run for its money: [www.britishv8.org]

And if you want even more... we plan to have a turbocharged three-rotor Mazda-powered Sprite written up here shortly after the holidays.

Even if I were committed to using a V8, I believe I'd want a five speed. I'd also be looking to shave weight everywhere possible. Why would you prefer a Toploader to a modern transmission?

The fender flares and hood scoop and or bulge is usually a given for a Midget. Some guys have successfully stuffed a lot of motor and tires inside the body, but it really gets close if you do. I personally don't like side pipes, just a pain in the backside because of bystanders getting burned unless they're well covered, and they usually are rather loud and close to the occupants ears. I'd say run them out the rear if you can.
As far as the wiring harness goes, you can usually figure out what goes where as most of the plugs are keyed for their mates and the wiring color code will also help figure it out.
One of the most common reasons a lot of projects are abandoned is that the builders use an engine that they already had or were given instead of something that was better matched to the body. In your case I think you can use the 2.3 and have a nice good handling high performance car that will be comfortable and fun to drive. You're wise not to over build, the 8" Ford rear is quite adequate and much lighter than the 9" or even 8.8 so it will give a better riding and handling chassis.
It's good that you have some experience in fabrication and construction. You'll need it on this project, that I know. Here's a photo of my current Midget and my last street rod back in '85 in evidence that I have some idea what I'm talking about.

Midget is currently being stripped down. Anyone needing parts cheap let me know. Pretty much all I am keeping is just the body. I am leaning more to the drag side of this build instead of an autocrosser. Buddy of mine just got me a really nice C4 trans w/ shift kit and 3800 stall converter. Thinking about a tunnel ram for the 302. May just sell the turbo motors or put one in my Ranger. I love drag cars!!!!

Have you thought about the Honda S2000 motor and trans?

Now you're talking!

Honda VTEC powered Spridget:

Oooh, I like that!!!

Yeah, I just wish I knew who the owner/builder is, and how to contact...

Did you see this one? Bruce Uchida's BMW-powered 1959 Austin Healey Sprite
(Bruce and I are practically neighbors!)

You're killin' me, Curtis!

Now I want to build a spridget like either of the above.

Careful Carl, you'll never go back to that boat of a MGB if you build a nimble Spridget. And you're alread king of the autocross, imagine what could be! ;-)

Nope, I am staying with my 302. I am getting a narrowed 9 in from my ole man. My 302 w/ a 650 cfm puts out between 325 and 350hp. With bigger valves, some more head work done, hotter spark, and tunnel ram w/ two 500cfm carbs this should be a decent strip/ street car. I might as well use the stuff I have laying around. The motor needs a home. I will not put this combo in my 72 Maverick or my 63 Falcon convertible. The MG will be my 'stupid' toy. The hell with gas mileage and cornering with this car. All smiles!!!

Harry,

Be real careful with that short wheelbase on the big end of the dragstrip!


Bill,

A well sorted spridget would be nearly like bringing a go-kart to the autocross!

Can't get this image outa my head!!!

Carl, I'm not saying my Midget is well sorted, but if I can make it to the V8 meet next spring I'll have to let you have a run in it and see what a good driver can make it do. It will be a lot better by then with a new set of Yokahomas and some new brakes and pads.

The VTEC Sprite is VERY handsome...

Carl, I think you'd need something even more radical to be competitive autocrossing on a national level.

Did you see this photo on our "Healey" forum? This is the current E-mod champ:


A "How It Was Done" article has been promised by the owner...

I doubt I'd match up very well against real autocrossers.

I do know my own car & can do a much better job in it than in someone else's car.