MG Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" and Costello V8s

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exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 08, 2016 07:37PM

I was changing the oil today and pulled the drain plug, attached to the magnet were 2 Phillips head machine screws 3.57mm x 6.35mm So I called Bessel Motorsports to see if Ronnie (a really nice guy) could lead me to their origin, he suggested flaps in the oil pan. I started looking at oil pans for ones that looked like the one on my B and found a Canton Rear Sump T Pan for Road Racing that fits a 86 - 95 Mustang, pulled up some pictures and right there in front of my beady little eyes were 4 Phillips head screws that attach the flaps under the windage tray. So now I'm left with a dilemma, yank the motor and fix the the oil pan or take a chance and run it. I can see by the construction that if the other 2 screws come out they won't get past the screen on the pickup, there is a slight chance that they could get caught in the splash and wind up bouncing around the crank and rods, they will be picked up by the magnet on the plug, and the flaps are attached to a diamond shaped plate that would just fall down and rest on the bottom of the pan. I don't believe that they would hinder the scavenging effect of the pickup. I called Ronnie back and he said that there would be a very small chance of any damage, but @#$%& does happen. Man you couldn't know how much I hate problems and making decisions. So what to do now?


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4411 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: Moderator
Date: April 08, 2016 08:29PM

Sounds terribly frustrating! The only consolation is that if you fix it right, you'll know it's been fixed right.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3790 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: April 08, 2016 09:06PM

Can you not put it on a lift & drop the pan? Otherwise, might try this. Put a rare earth magnet on a bent coat hangar wire wrapped in some tape to lessen the attraction, put it up into the drain hole & let it stick to the bottom of the pan somewhere. Maybe, two or three rare earth magnets. Should catch about anything magnetic.

Personally, I would want to fix that oil baffle for those extremely hard cornering days. :)


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: April 08, 2016 10:16PM

Bite the bullet, pull the pan and fix it!
You will worry about it every time you fire the motor otherwise.
The chances of catastrophic failure are low, but if it does happen it will be just like the "power stroke" diesels.
Cause that's what they do to your bank account every time you open the hood.

Cheers
Fred


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 08, 2016 10:23PM

Thanks Carl, Your suggestion just reminded me that the Fast Cars inc front suspension is only attached to the frame by 4 bolts, 2 brake lines,and the steering shaft. I should be able to drop that assembly on the floor slide it out of the way and drop the oil pan. Thank You Sir, you are a stress saver and a life saver because I was contemplating eating a bullet rather than telling WAW about this. I could hear her saying you bought another S/10 didn't you, (that's a story I'll tell in Townsend if I get drunk enough)
25340_114435835251542_1255470_n.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2016 10:31PM by exfed12825.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5833 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: April 09, 2016 10:53AM

The other option is to stick a huge magnet to the bottom of the oil pan.

Jim


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 09, 2016 02:21PM

Just spent 2 1/2 hours removing the bolts on the oil pan I don't think I'll have to drop the subframe to slide the pan out if the pickup doesn't get in the way, but the motor mounts are squished up against the edges of the pan and won't let it move. I'm toying with the idea of reaching up in there with my die grinder and shaving off a little of the rubber, rather than trying to lift the engine because there is very little room in there and the motor mounts are round pucks bolted to a chunk of 1 1/4 inch square tubing with a 5/8 lock nut inside. Not the way I would have designed them but.



exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 10, 2016 01:51PM

3 Hours later, the oil pan is loose, the motor mounts are out, the engine is hanging from the cherry picker about 2 inches higher than it normally sits, (it's up against the firewall), and the pan is hung up on the steering knuckles, I'm going to have to disconnect the steering and drop the sub frame at least a couple of inches. I'm done for today. I think I'm going to get drunk now. I've been taking pictures but don't know how get them off the camera, WAW will do it later.


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 10, 2016 01:54PM

Well new plan :curse: I got the front sub frame down and the oil pan sitting on the floor, SURPRISE SURPRISE, not the oil pan I thought it was, same shape on the outside but no baffles, just a windage tray. So now I don't know where those little screws came from. I guess that is the problem when you buy something that someone else assembled. When I built my S/10 I knew every part by it's first name, and when I grenaded that engine I could look at the mangled part and tell exactly where it came from, what bolt size, thread, and wrench I needed to fix it. :badday:

I have been unable to contact the original builder, I've looked at every picture I could find of the internals of a 347 Ford stroker and cannot find any little 9/32 x 1/4 inch Philips head screws. I'm going to pull the valve covers and see if there might be a baffle in there by the breathers. Other than that I'm lost and I'll put it back together, sprinkle it with holy water and beat the piss out of it. :prayer: I'm not a believer so maybe I'll just hang a gremlin bell on it and hope for the best


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 10, 2016 04:16PM

VIOLA !!! I found where those 2 pesky screws came from they were used to hold the baffles in place on the valve covers. Now I have found an even bigger problem, There are 2 screws still missing. I checked over the valve springs and rockers and there are no nicks or scratches but no loose screws either. I'm going to go back down to the barn and strain the oil I remove from the oil change and see if maybe they came out with that, and send a brazing rod down the oil drain passage to see it they might be lodged in that, and use a high pressure air gun to blow anything loose that may be stuck some place. Call me a little anal, but I'm not willing to put this car back together without finding those other 2 screws. Not being able to contact Greg Beishir leaves me with a Big Question, Did he happen to find screws stuck to the drain plug in a prior oil change?

I will leave you with this note, If your running Ford Racing cast aluminum valve covers with baffles under the breather and filler holes check the over, even if you just stick your finger in the holes to be sure the baffles are tight, I'd really hate to see anyone else go through what I've experienced over the past few days.


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 12, 2016 12:42PM

I strained the oil and found 1 more little screw, that leaves 1 still missing. Ordered the gasket set to put this thing back together and included intake gaskets, that should be a hint as to where this is heading, into the valley of lifters I dive, if you don't hear from me in the next day or 2 send in the St Bernard and make sure the keg around his neck is full of bourbon, cause I'm going to need it.


exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 13, 2016 09:46PM

I don't know if anyone is following this thread, but I got the intake off today and the stress plate and there was no loose screw in there. I've checked with every body I know, including Ronnie from Bessel Motorsports, and they all say that I've looked everywhere that that screw could possibly be. I'm going to put it back together now and feel confident that there is nothing to worry about. Thanks for playing along in this game of hide and seek.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1259 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: April 14, 2016 03:21AM

No worries Tony, we're all following. And we've all been there to one degree or another.
Having a definitive answer settles your nerves, but sometimes close is all you get.
We just finished off an 07 F150 5.4 that had seized shortly after the owner installed a nice looking low mile used engine.
Pulled it apart and found a big piece of Saran wrap stuck in the pickup screen.
The owner had no idea where it came from and the wrecking yard said "not from here".
After some "investigating" it turns out that this wrecker plugs all the openings in an engine with stretch wrap.
It looks like the dipstick tube was filled with stretch wrap and the owner/installer didn't see it. Push the dipstick in and boom goes your engine.
So who is at fault here?
The wrecker supplied a good engine but did something unexpected with the stretch wrap.
The owner installed the engine without checking for debris.
The wrecker says that the installer needs to fully inspect the product before installation.
The owner says that it's not reasonable to check the dipstick tube for debris that the wrecker installed.
Anyway back to the screw job.
It's entirely possible that the screw was missing from the get go.
Or as you surmised, it left on a previous oil change. You had a second one drift by so it's certainly possible.
If you're certain the screw is gone, throw it back together (with some locking compound) and go enjoy it.

Cheers
Fred


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5833 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: April 14, 2016 10:43AM

And stick a big magnet inside the pan just to be safe.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(3790 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: April 14, 2016 09:20PM

And like Fred sed :) Loctite those screws!



exfed12825
Tony Gentile
Waterford, Pa
(61 posts)

Registered:
03/30/2016 02:43PM

Main British Car:
1974 MGB 347ci Bessel Motorsports/ Ford stroker 530 hp

Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: exfed12825
Date: April 17, 2016 02:54PM

I used 4 mm bolts with inside star washers and Red Loc-Tite


pspeaks
Paul Speaks
Dallas, Texas
(698 posts)

Registered:
07/20/2009 06:40PM

Main British Car:
1972 MGB-GT 1979 Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: pspeaks
Date: April 22, 2016 12:23AM

Tony. your problem gave me reason for concern as I have those valve covers too so I pulled them to check. Luckily the screws are all still in place but now I know to do something about them before I put them back on. Thanks for the heads-up.


Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2016 12:25AM by pspeaks.


TeamEvil
Thomas Canty

(34 posts)

Registered:
03/07/2012 02:01PM

Main British Car:


Re: Found Another Problem
Posted by: TeamEvil
Date: August 03, 2016 04:36PM

Given that three screws managed to come loose on their own, and considering that the oil pan might not be the best one in the barrel . . . maybe the fourth screw was never there to begin with?


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