MG Sports Cars

Gents and ladies:

I have, or should I say my 16 year old son has, just acquired a 1976 MG Midget from a friend of the family. The friend of the family that gave this car to my son, lost her husband about 8 months ago to cancer. The car was his prior to his death, and it is in moderate to good condition; Paint is good, no visible corrosion on any of the body panels, has the original engine and 4 speed transmission, all told it is a numbers matching car. Interior is in great shape less the carpet, but I have a new carpet set that came with the car. My son out of the kindness in his heart, has help her take care of her yard, clean her garage, and helped her in general in her time of need. I am proud that he could find the compassion in his heart to do these things for her, when so many kids these days are out for themselves, and care less about others around them.

I am curious to find out from the gurus on this forum, that have, or seem to have, enumerable amounts more knowledge of these MG's that I or my son have.

Knowing that this is going to be posted in the forum, please bear with me in this rant, so I can get to the part that actually asks the questions I think need answered.

Is this car worth anything stock as it sits? I other words, is it collectable, and would modifying the car detract from it worth? Is it worth trying to keep it as stock as possible, restoring it back to its original condition?

My dilemma is this; My son is a new driver, and I want to afford/allow him the experience to have to work for what he has and in turn be proud of what he has worked for. However as a responsible parent, I want to ensure that he has a safe, reliable car to drive. I have a deal with him, that I will fund the project if he maintains a GPA of at least a 3.8, makes Eagle Scout (which he is in work on as I write this) and stays active in Varsity sports. That said, I have fairly good budget to get the car right, and my wife is on board with the idea.

Is an engine and transmission swap practical to provide him with the reliability afforded in more modern cars? Or is the engine and transmission good, if it is freshened up a bit. If the answer is yes, swap it, what is the best solution for him and what is most practical? In-Line 4, V6, V8, V10, etc... The V10 is a bit of a joke, I was looking on line doing research and looking at prices for parts, and found a guy that sells Dodge Viper engines and transmissions, I told my son about it and he thought it would be cool to have a 500HP Viper engine in his tiny little car. All I could do is laugh...

Should I guide him to plan to replace the electrical system with something more modern and simple? I have heard through talking with British Car enthusiasts that the electrical system has something to be desired and is the heart of unreliability in this car? Is that fact, or just a myth?

If it were mine, and mine alone, I think I'd want to upgrade certain items to make it a reliable yet fun daily driver, that could be auto crossed, or taken to car shows since I rarely see Midgets running around in the Southern Maryland area. The car is way under powered in my opinion, and beltway driving is somewhat a scary undertaking.

Hope you guys/ladies can lend a hand in answering some of the questions I have posed. Just trying to get a sense of what everyone thinks that knows these cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 03:58PM by cstansfield.

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to MG ownership!

Regardless of what you do with this little car, folks around here probably won't condemn your decision.

To be frank and honest, by 1976 MG Midgets had been through quite a lot of evolutionary change. Even the most diehard MG fans generally prefer earlier "chrome bumper" Midgets. The earlier cars were lighter, more nimble, and more responsive. Back in the day, these cars were never about power or going fast - they were about carrying their momentum through turns. They can be a lot of fun with the stock engine, well tuned. (Make sure to put sticky tires on it!) Anyway, since your '76 isn't even popular among the ever decreasing number of people who are already MG enthusiasts, it's not likely to appreciate in value much (ever).

The good side of all that is that your '76 Midget may make a lot of sense as a project car - even for someone who is just developing their skills, doesn't have a lot of specialized tools yet, etc. These cars are simple and relatively easy to work on. Parts for them are cheap and easy to get. They have a certain unique charm that newer and larger cars don't share.

My first piece of general advice is to divide projects into manageable sub-projects. Second: think before you cut. For example, I'd plan on living with the original MG electrical system for awhile because that's the only way you'll know what aspects of it are just fine and what aspects really need work. (Any 30+ year old car will likely need more maintenance than a ten year old car.) You might decide that changing the alternator is worthwhile, but changing the wiper motor is a waste of money and time.

I'll let other people suggest engines. There are LOTS of excellent compact engines that would double or triple the acceleration of your 76 Midget (and no, they won't screw up its handling!)

Perhaps I'm getting old and mean, because my instinct is to tell you to take this car for yourself. Seriously, if I had a sixteen year old son I'd probably rather see him get excited about a Volvo wagon. (Even an MGB offers night-and-day better crash protection than a Midget.) These are not really the best cars for teenagers... but another option might be to get your son that older Volvo wagon (as safe, reliable, basic transportation) AND ALSO help him build this Midget into an autocross car, a racecar, a hot-rod, whatever... For one thing, engine swaps usually take way more time than expected. Even when they're "done", you should figure that there will be a few kinks to work out. The car will get more reliable as he drives and improves it.

Welcome Curtis,

Commuted from Annapolis to Chesapeake Ranch Estates building homes from 1988 - 1992. Most of my subs were located in your area.

Happy trails, Tony

Curtis, as a fellow Midget driver and modifier I'd say that to start just a good performance rebuild of the stock engine is the place to start. These motors respond well to increased compression (flat top pistons) and to a mild grind cam. That would give him a nice spirited car to drive while you both are planning your next move. There's not a lot of value to the car, just to many built and not the most desirable model as Curtis has said, so it's not like you're going to severely damage the value to consider an engine swap.
There are not a lot of us with modified Spridgets (the Austin Healey Sprite and MG Midget were essencially the same car, hence Spridget) among the group, but there are a few who have posted information on their swaps in the Newsletter. [www.britishv8.org]
Take a look at those to get an idea of the complexity and amount of modification necessary for an engine conversion. From my own experience I would advise that if you want to keep a nice car that will both stop and handle stay with a light engine, either a newer design inline 4, rotary, or a V6. I think that a V8 swap into this chassis requires too much sacrifice in interior room and adds too much weight unless it's the aluminum Buick Rover V8 to keep a nice balanced car.
I plan on having my Midget at BV8 09 in June, hope some others will make it as well. Perhaps you and your son can make it down and see the possibilities.

Hi Curtis,

A few years ago my daughter, who was 18 or 19 at the time, bought a 1975 Midget her uncle had found that had only 16,000 miles on it. We put a battery in it, patched some wires where an opossum had built a nest, and she started driving it. Being an old car, it had a number of things crop up. For instance, the fuel guage didn't work right, there was crap in the gas tank that would plug up the fuel line and make it stall, stuff like that.
She was so excited to first get that car, and learned how to drive a manual tranny in it. Her Uncle Jim was happy to have one of my family on the dark (MG) side but since it was so small, she was scared to drive it on the interstate, and due to the fuel problems did not trust it. She listed it locally for $5500, and took the first offer she got, selling it for $5000. I have seen it recently (about 5-6 years later) and the new owner has totally restored it. I am sure he has way more money invested than the car is worth. Anyway, she was able to get a more modern car that suited her needs much better. I think that if you can get the car in decent running condition, it would be beneficial to drive it that way for a while to see if you are comfortable with it. That is what I am doing with my TR7, and so far I have been favorably impressed with it.

Dan

Wow, what a great bunch of answers and opinions... And thanks for the warm welcome!

Mostly what I was already thinking of, but wanted to see that I wasn't off my rocker. And too, you can't believe everything you hear when you talk to people that say, "I had one of those and the wiring was crap" or "they are completely unreliable cars"...

I have been actually considering and put a good amount of thought into making this a "my three son's" project car. However, the oldest is out of state and in college and has zero interest in restoring anything, he'd rather just buy new and throw out the old, typical for his age, I think. So maybe a "my two son's" car...

However, I have two other boys still at home, a 15 year old and the 16 year old I spoke of. I have a sneaking suspicion that the 15 year old has more interest in the Midget than the 16 year old does, probably because it isn't his and he's always wanted what his brother has...

I can't in my right mind keep this for myself, because it was sort of a reward for the 16 year olds hard work for helping our friend out when she lost her husband, and especially when she really needed help. And, he did it on his own without prompting. So I would just assume that he come to the determination for himself to say I don't want this thing anymore, and get something else. Then I could make a deal with him and purchase it from him so he could get what he really wants.

I have always had the bug to refurbish old cars. I have mildly restored a 47' GMC pick-up, a 67' Pontiac GTO, and fully restored a 66' Ford Mustang, and a 70' Ford Mustang. But I have never dabbled with anything British, so this will be a fun and interesting project.

So, check my thoughts if you'd be so kind...

I think I will start under the Bonnet with changing all of the mechanical fluids (radiator, brake, clutch, etc...) hoses, and a basic tune-up (plugs/wires/rotor/caps/etc...), check the brakes, check the charging system, and of course change the Gas in the tank, then maybe a header, and a weber carb upgrade too.

Then making some cosmetic changes... Dash and/or Dash pad, carpet (which I already have), radio, wheels and tires, rubber seals all around, a good cleaning, waxing, and polishing. Which BTW begs a question. I am having a bit of trouble finding decent 13" tires, can the square arch Midget accept 14" rims and tires? If so, that would make a huge difference in what type of tires I can locate. what is are the dimensions/offset and the bolt pattern in Millimeters?

Then come to terms with a motor and tranny swap.

I think he needs to show me interest in working on it and putting in some sweat equity before I undertake a huge project like a swap.

So what do ya think?

Curtis, I don't think you will get a 14" rim in there even if you could find one. The lug pattern is 4 on 4"
There aren't a lot of options as far as wheels go for these cars. For most the Minilite style wheels sold by both Victoria British and Moss are the answer. You might also check out the Performance Superlite wheels sold through the Acme Speed Shop, they have the minilite style as well as a new style that might appeal to you. Contact Hap for the details. [www.acmespeedshop.com] They will fit as they are designed for the car and even on a square arch car you should be able to fit 175 series tires with minimal rub. You might have to massage the inner fender lip a bit, but that's about all. Tire Rack shows several brands in a 175-70 13 size. I've heard good reports on both the Khumo and Sumitomo tires for what it's worth.
In my earlier response I failed to address the electrical reliability problems. These are mostly exagerations, but there are some areas where the original Lucas wiring does have potential problems. Lucus used "bullet" connections throughout the car and these can corrode over time and cause intermittant connections. They're easy to clean up, I like to just use a small brass brush on the male portion of the connector and dip the female connectors in CLR for a couple of minutes then rinse and dry. That will take care of a lot of problems. The fuse block is another potential problem area with poor connections. Lucus used spade connectors there and they loosen with time. They can be tightened by carefully applying pressure with a pair of pliers and a good dip in CLR for the connectors and even the entire fuse block won't hurt.
These were pretty basic cars built to the lowest cost possible, so in several areas rather hight load circuits are directly switched (headlights and brake lights are the worst) and the switches tend to heat up after years of use and cause problems. The replacment switches aren't nearly as high quality as the originials so a lot of guys are now installing relays in those circuits to carry the higher load and leave the lighter load of the relay energizing circuit on the switch.
If you have any questions I'll be glad to answer if I can.
Bill Young



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2009 12:15PM by Bill Young.

As Bill alluded to, the quality of replacement parts varies. In some areas this is a real problem! (If there's a big price difference between Moss and Victoria British on a specific part, it's probably for a reason.) Apparently, one area where quality varies especially widely is ignition parts - which is why Jeff Schlemmer (at Advanced Distributors) is very popular. He can steer you toward the "right" parts, at least within his area of expertise. Wheels? Bill mentioned some of the sources of fake Minilites. The real deal are still available too! Check our BritishV8 vendor directory because we're sponsored by some of the very best suppliers. The directory is found under the "contact" pulldown menu at the top of every page of our website. Here's a direct link: [www.britishv8.org]

All:

Thanks for the information, I think it will be very valuable in the near future.

Bill, The United Bank of Mom and Dad is supporting my eldest son at the University of Kansas in Lawrence. During a visitation, I thought what a great place to live and such nice people out there... So I suppose you could say, he in your neck of the woods.

As I alluded to previously, the car has sat for a year or longer without much attention being payed to it. When we went to our friends house with my son, to get it rolling again, I found all four tires as flat as pancakes... I was able to re-inflate the drivers side and the rear passenger side, however, when I started inflating the front passenger side, it exploded at the side wall... I thought I pee'd myself when the thing let go out the side wall. The spare is in less than desirable shape to use as well, so for safety sake I am going to replace all of the tires. Not sure, but it looks like one of the rims may be a bit bent, or it is an optical illusion, nonetheless I think new minilites would look great on the car. I need to get over there, and put the thing up on jack stands and remove all of the tires and rims so they can be replaced so we can get the car moved to its new home to start working on it.

I have had a couple of conversations with folks that own British Cars, TR's mostly, and they refer to LUCAS as the "Prince of Darkness" because of the lighting issues that have been experienced. I think the wiring is going to be the biggest frustration with this car.

Again thanks for your clear and concise advice and comments. I'll be sure to update you guys/gals on the progress as it happens.