MG Sports Cars

Ok, I have my 2.8 But now I can't find a T-5 out of a camaro.I can find all kinds of them for a S-10, But The problem of the shifter being too close to the dash...
Is there any way to make this work? I don't have a problem with doing a bit of cutting but I'd rather not have to do a lot of it.
Also, It seems the more I read, the more things keep popping up (as far as problems) like the water pump running in reverse,Making pulleys, gearing, It seems to go on and on.`
I really am committed to doing this, but I'm getting very confused with all I`m reading.
Is there just a good " step by step " I can go by that will explain what I can expect to run into and how to deal with it?
Bill Young has been a great help and I would like to thank him for his help so far.
I`m still getting on to this whole "forum thing" so If I`m going about anything the wrong way I apologize.

Mike, Try this website for auto recyclers.
[car-part.com]
I just queried on a 1987 Camaro w/2.8 manual xsmn for Iowa and 4 locations popped up.

Mike, if you have a 2.8 out of a RWD car or truck the water pump can be changed to the early style rotation just by getting one from a Camaro or S10 prior to the serpentine belt. (82-86) That said, I had a serpentine setup on my 87 Camaro engine and am now running a single V belt and it's the same pump and I don't have any cooling issues, might not be an issue on that configuration engine. I did have to fabricate a lower crank pulley for the v belt drive as I couldn't find any GM unit that would fit in my application, I think I used a pulley off of a later T bird to make mine and drilled to to fit the Chevy balancer. That lined up with the standard V belt GM water pump pulley on one groove and I made the alternator bracket to match that alignment.
As far as the trans goes, that's a tough one. I hear that you can install the Camaro type tail housing and shifter on the S10 front case, but that still would mean you'd have to find a Camaro box or at least part of one. There was a post on another thread last week with a photo of a remote shifter someone fabricated that might also solve your problem as to shifter location. I'd still think the best thing would be to hold out a bit and keep looking for a V6 Camaro box, They are out there still. Keep checking craigs list (is that your want ad on the Dubuque list? ) and make friends with your local salvage yard owners to keep their eyes open.
I'm not aware of any "step by step" for this conversion as there have only been three or four done that I know of and all of them were slightly different in their placement of the engine and motor mounts etc. so it's almost like each of us has to figure it out on our own. At least for you there is this forum and others, those weren't around 13 years ago when I started my conversion and I am glad to help where I can. I figure the other guys with V6 Spridgets would answer questions as well, have you tried contacting anyone else with a V6 conversion? I think I'm the only one on this forum with a 60 degree Midget conversion, but I have exchanged e-mails with a couple of others over the years and could probably make contact again if you need anything that they might be able to help with.
You're getting the hang of the forum just fine. This new topic is just what you need so that your questions don't get overlooked.
Bill

Bill you said that you removed the center of your steering rack mount. Did you just cut it, or did you weld in a plate or bracket for strength?

I'm kind of at a stand still until I get a transmission. Not much I can do til I see where everything is going to sit.
I did notice that you had the two uprights off you car. (the posts that are welded on to the front frame rails that the front end bolts onto). How does that work? Do you have your front end welded together and hinged? That would be something I would really like to do as well.
Still searching for a transmission. I do have a lead or two. I plan on going to a swap meet in Elkhorn, Wisconsin next week, so maybe I'll find what I need there. Any thing else I should keep an eye out for?
Have a good weekend.
-Mike-

Just thought I would put on a picture of my project

Mike, I cut the crossmember and welded a cover piece on the ends and tied that down into the main crossmember. Looking back I probably should have made the reinforcement a bit stronger similar to what the factory did on the 1500 powered cars. It shows up fairly well in this photo.

What about the Posts that the front end bolts onto?I noticed that yours were gone.How does that work?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that little mod. I had to remove those for clearance, now the front is supported by the lower panel between the radiator and the grill, four 1/4" bolts directly into the top of the chassis extensions. I made up a support frame for the radiator and fan assembly which mounts to the three bolt holes on each side of the radiator support which use to bolt to the frame uprights. I suppose that I probably didn't need to remove the uprights, but it does make pulling the engine and trans much easier as you don't have to lift the engine as high or at such a steep angle. As for the steering crossmember I suggest if you have to cut it as I did you weld in a reinforcement of similar size tubing that angles down to the main crossmember similar to the way the factory did on the 1500 Midgets. Sort of like this:

Thanks much again Bill.I cut the crossmember today. I did cut some 1 1/2 angel at 3 3/4 inches long. I thought that I could weld that in but I think I like your idea better.Glad I waited!

Jim Nichols has a thread (2nd page 3rd from bottom) on Alternate sources for Bell housings.
He talks about Toyota transmissions for the GM V-6 from an early supra.
He also talks about Jeep and Dakota Bell housings,A wealth of informative information
without a doubt.BUT... Its a bit over my head I just want to know if there are any transmissions that will bolt up to my Gm 2.8 and slide into my midget.
I have a few leads on a T-5 But I would like to find the trans,bell housing,Flywheel,and everything in one deal.
I did find a guy who has a carb. and intake off a early celebrity.That should work to convert the motor over from the T.B.
Do I need to do anything with the electronics? mainly the coil .The stock one is a square transformer looking thing.

Sorry for all the lame questions but I would rather ask once and do it right than not ask and have to redo things.

Mike, no problem with the questions, that's the reason the forum is here. No one wants to see you work any harder than you have to to build your car. I can't answer about the transmissions as I've only had experience fitting the Camaro T5. About the only way you're going to be sure if a transmission will fit in the tunnel area without major work is to find one and take a lot of measurements. I suspect that most of the transmissions from pickups such as the S10, Jeep, and Dakota will have shifter locations that are a bit too far forward for comfort, but some measurment will determine if they can be used. You start getting into an area where there may be a lot of possible options or very few, we just don't know what will fit certain bell housings and what won't. I remember seeing a post somewhere about a possible fit of a Toyota box onto a Dakota bell housing if I remember correctly, just too many variables at this point to be sure. If you could find such a fit, then perhaps a passenger car version of that transmission say from a Supra would have a shifter location that was better than the truck version and work out ok. Still you need to check the width of the main box. The T5 is really close. I had to increse the width of the tunnel maybe 1/2" to 3/4" when I formed the upper section from new sheet metal and trim off all the unnecessary tabs and protrusions from the T5 case to fit it in my car and then it's close. I had to mount it "straight up" instead of at the normal 17 degree slant as it's in the Camaro as well, which was easy using the early Camaro bell housing, but might be a problem with a later bell housing, something else to check.
Use the coil that came with the igniton that you wind up using in the end. The transformer type coil works fine with the later computer type electronic ignition used with fuel injection, the earlier cars used a different type of ignition system with either a coil built into the distributor cap or a more conventional round coil as I remember. Just match them up and you should be fine.
Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions that you have, I'll be glad to answer as I can, either here on the forum or by PM.

Yes I was thinking of the tunnel the other day.Thought I would just cut most of it out and make a new one up somehow after I get everything in place.I guess the only thing would be how to shape it right.
I`m finding that having the bottom of the tunnel enclosed is a bit of a pain.But it seems to be needed for the overall strength of the car.
I think I will just stick to finding a T-5.Makes things a bit simpler for me.

Mike, as far as the tunnel mods go, no matter what trans you use they will probably be pretty similar to what I had to do for the T5. This photo shows the tunnel top portion from about 2" above the floor up to the top completely removed and the front edge at the firewall raised about 1.5" then a new tunnel section was formed from 20 gauge sheet metal, actually a couple of pieces to get the shape closer to that of the trans. I formed the pieces just by bending over my leg and using a pipe support in my basement to get some of the curved shape. I cut the original shifter opening out of the old tunnel and relocated it to fit the T5 shifter and then filled in the remaining area with smaller pieces of sheet metal bent to fit. To make access to the transmission yoke and u-joint easier I made an access hole in the top of the drive shaft tunnel and fabricated a sheet metal cover that is attached with sheet metal screws about every inch or so. The vertical tab you see on the top of the tunnel just in front of the shifter is just something I added to attach my home built radio consle to and isn't needed for the conversion.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 04:35PM by Bill Young.

Bill would you mind going a bit more in depth on your clutch linkage situation and how you delt with it?
Is there anything special I should be trying to find as far as Linkage ect.?

My solution for the clutch was based on the use of an early Camaro bell housing and would't apply to either as S10 or later Camaro housing. Because the early Camaro housing had "ears" for a starter on each side I was able to shorten the clutch fork and mount a slave cylinder inline with the ear on the driver's side. I made up a plate from 3/16" steel stock which replaced the original sheet metal dust cover for the lower portion of the bell housing and mounted the aluminum mounting bracked for a 1500 Midget slave cylinder to that. I made up my own pushrod which was cut to length so that there was a tiny amount of play when the clutch was fully released just to make sure the throwout bearing didn't ride against the pressure plate. Clutch effort is increased a bit, but still fairly comfortable. Some other clutch solutions for the V6 with a T5 are currently being discussed on the MG Experience board, might be worth your time to take a look at what others's have done as well. [www.mgexperience.net] or [www.mgexperience.net]
The photo is of my clutch slave mounting bracket installed on the engine, the slave cylinder has been removed from the bracket as I didn't want to break the hydraulic connection when I pulled the engine.

Whats the story with the carb./throttle body thing on the 2.8?
I thought What I had was a T.B So I took it off ( messed up some linkage in doing so).
Then I find it was a carb.I still don`t know if it would need a computer to run or not. I just want to switch it over to something I understand. (if that`s possible)
I know edlebrock makes a # 3785 and a 3787 intake but don`t what one would work best.
Would there be a used one that would interchange?
Again the motor is from a 85 S-10 .
Did at last find a tranny,bell housing,clutch,and flywheel.All from a camaro. to bolt onto it.I will have to drive two hrs.to get to it but the guy assures me he has what I need.He owns a transmission shop so I guess I can trust that it will be good to go.He wants 200 bucks for everything.That seems like a heck of a deal to me!
As always thanks much I`d be lost without all the good advice and help.

Mike, I'm not sure about the early S10 carb/TB, I think there were some of each produced. The carb would probably have some type of electronic controls as well, a lot of carbs from this period did. The best bet if you want to run a carb is to swap it out for a Holley. The best manifold is probably to use the Edelbrock base manifold along with the carb adaptor from Bill Guzman at Classic Conversion Engineering. [www.classicconversionseng.com]
That's about the lowest in over all height as a combination which would save on a lot of hood modifications.
That deal on the transmission sounds like a good one even with the drive. You may run into some issues with clearance with the Camaro bell housing and the S10 flywheel and clutch assembly though. Check with guys like Bill G and Brian McCollough about those, they're the experts in that area.

The clutch,bell housing and flywheel are all out of a camaro That`s what I want Right?

That's the set up I used and it does fit. There are a ton of combinations that will work, it's difficult to keep track of them all as you know. I was lucky and just bought a complete car so I knew that everything would work together. It's a little more worrysome when you get bits from here and there. The only thing I can think of that might be a potential problem is engine balance, I thought some of the early motors were externally balanced so the flywheel needed to be for that combination. I can't remember right now what the details were, read about it in the book Chevy Power I believe. You might find the information on this Wiki page interesting, especially about the use of carburators and when the throttle bodies were introduced. [en.wikipedia.org] No mention of the balancing, but I think it changed when they went to the larger crank journals in 85.

Now I`m worried.I guess I just thought that any 2.8 would bolt up to any T-5 as long as you had the right clutch and bell housing.
Boy I wonder if there`s a difference from a automatic to manual (as far as the pilot shaft)?
I`d sure like to know if all this is going to go together before I drive all that way (and spend $200.00).
I know he said he has the same setup as you have for the bell housing,clutch and flywheel.I just don`t know If the LR2 (B-code) S-10 motor and the LB8 (S-code motor) from a camaro will have the same tranny interchanges???
Know anyone who can help?