Triumph Sports Cars

Hello, cheers.
I am new to this so please forgive me if I do not know what I am talking about. I have been thinking about starting a project car and wanted it to be a Tr-6. I been searching around and have seen some bits here and about for sale. I am not sure where to start? Can anyone give me a ideal of what is needed and what I should be aware of before I start spending money. What I have found so far is (1). 1970 Tr-6 that has been striped down to the frame. The body has been sanded and primed. many of the parts have been replaced. ( 2) I have contacted RATCO about having a framed made for a V8.( 3) I have read the web sites and it seems that the ford engine is the way to go leaning to either a 304 or 428. I thank you all in advance.

This might be better in the Triumph forum.

fwiw, you should have a think about what you want.
Let's leave $ out of it for a second.

Your biggest question is whether you want to run IRS or solid rear.
If it's an IRS and you aren't doing a full-custom fab setup, then you are pretty much restricted to the short-nose R200, which keeps you down to about 300hp. That then determines your engine choice.

If it's a solid axle, there's at least one other vendor does a plug in frame - I think he's a supporter here, do a search for Fast Cars Inc. I saw his car at Carlisle, and it's a nice looking piece of work. A bit too lowered for my taste, but that's a personal thing ;)

As to engines, they all have the same problem - the steering. Get over that and you can make a lot of things fit.

After that it's weight and power. A 302 isn't a bad option, nor is a BOPR if you are staying IRS - it's super light, and you can get 300ish out of it without it becoming a grenade.

Your other choice if you want to get really fancy would be an LSx series engine. That and a T56 are within 30lbs of the TR6 and O/D tranny. If you use a FrontRunner setup and the F-body pan, it'll all fit without any cutting, other than a tiny bit of firewall trimming, and the hood will close (or look at Calvin's build journal for the pieces that need adjusting if you don't use the VA setup). If the cost is scary, look at Ken Hieberts car - it has an LT in it, and it hauls. They are very inexpensive stock.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of other opinions.
Good luck on the build though.

Ken,.

You should take a look at this!

[www.fastcarsinc.com]

Thank you guys!!!

Now more things to think about. I did speak with the owner of Fast Cars about a frame and I do like what he has come up with. Fast Cars may be out of the game for awhile, but I am trying to stay in contact with him. I did look at Ken Hieberts car, WOW. I loved what he did but I wanted to stay little more old school. More back to basic motor, carb, battery. Something that I could reach under the hood / bonnet and work on. So the both of you sound as if you both have drove or rode in a TR with more than 150hp. Do I really need more than 300hp? Also what is a FrontRunner setup and F-body pan? Where is Calvin's build journal I looked and could not find it. Dan I like where you were going with your TR have you finish it yet? Also what ideals do you have for me or bits of wisdom. By the way thank you for redirecting my message this is not something I do so please forgive me if I put things in the wrong place.

Well my current 6 has a little over 150hp. It's the lowest powered car we have.
It still transforms the thing - now it'll keep up with Hondas, which makes it much more fun to drive.

Since you want old-school, your options have been sharply limited. I won't mention the LY7 engine (and how cheap they are to buy, and how they fit without cutting) for example, or the Ford 2.3 turbo monster.

The problem with high hp motors isn't so much the engine, the transmission or the rear end, it's getting enough tire under there, so you can go forward rather than just spinning the wheels. Have a think about what you want the car for, how fast you want to go, and how much $ you can spend. That'll limit what you can do down to a reasonable subset of options.

To answer your other questions, a FrontRunner setup is a front mounted ancilliary setup manufactured by Vintage Air. It's a super compact way to hang your alternator off your engine, which lets it fit in smaller spaces. It's very pretty, and very well made. The downside is the cost. There's an example of one on an LS2 here.



An F-body pan is from a Camaro, for an LSx engine. The reason for using it is because it tucks up tighter than some of the others. There's a useful primer here - Oil Pans



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2009 09:09PM by alana.

Ken,

The TR6 with a V8 is what BL should have done. What a great transformation into a smooth cruiser or a neck snapping spirited driver. My ride has a 92 5.0 HO that I converted from FI to carbs. Stock with about 235 to 240hp! Not wild HP but enough to wake up the TR6!

I would:
1) Get the best condition frame and body that you can afford to start your project
2) Replace the wiring harness and fuse box, 8 circuit or better (ask Dan Masters)
3) Install a grounding harness
4) If you are keeping the IRS, look into Richard Goods R200 swap, also if there is $ left over look at the Hub replacements he offers.
5) If you’re going with more HP than 300 and planning on some lead foot, I would really look at the Ford 9” narrowed.
Some have used older Corvette pumpkins, Toyota Supras, and BMW but be ready to do your own fabrication.
6) Even thought I’m a Blue Oval guy,( this hurts to say this) the best swap for the money/hp/performance is the LS series. (the 5.0 is getting long in the tooth and harder to come by) The 5.0 or 302 is an easier fit than the LS, so choose your path based on what you want the ride to be and how much fabrication you want and can do.
7) Take your time, attack each step, each task as it’s own project complete it, take pride in it, celebrate success, and take on the next task. If you break it down into smaller projects you will get it done!

It’s a journey to under take the swap, but there are people here to help, been there, done that, how tooooooo’s, and outstanding resources. And the people are very special too! You will develop friends near and far.

Kenneth, Welcome! You are at the right place.

Don, I can see the cringe on your face when you said LS series! :-)

Here is where my build is Kenneth....[forum.britishv8.org] The moderator made it a sticky in the Triumph section at the top.

That's a very nice setup Fast Cars produced for the TR6, I'm wondering if he will do an IRS next?


Some info that I ran into with LS1 engine with T56 transmission conversion:
Another front runner on a LS1,2 or 6 on the cheaper side is use a Corvette setup,all pullies will be 3/4" closer to the block than the F-body Camaro setup. Another costly way is Street & Performance front runner. A little less than Vintage Air front runner.

Will also want to use an F-body(Camaro/Z28/SS) oil pan if you are going to use your frame that you presently have(stock frame).

The water pump will be close to the passenger side of the suspension tower. For the water pump, you will need to pull the pressed in tubes for the water going to the heater. Can then tap threads in for 90 degree fittings, then it will clear.

The thermostate housing will cause some tight issues for the suspension tower cross member.There are work arounds for that also.

Transmission(T56) shifter will be back some 8" or so from stock location. There are ways to deal with this. You will want to use some type of block hugger headers or....

What I have been reading all over the net, LS1 in a 2300lbs car to 3200lbs will get you 30mph on the freeway drive. There is a guy around my neighboorhood, that has a Nissan 240sx with 2004 GTO LS1 that gets 30mph on average.

Alan has pointed out some of this info above, and Don too.

Tons of fun ahead of you Kenneth!

Calvin

Greetings Kenneth,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 10:53AM by TR6-6SPD.

Greetings Kenneth,

My friends have all given you good ,clean and concise advise. I could add the following:

Do you need more than 300HP? There's want and there's need. This is my third season driving the TR6 and after 21,000 miles, I find the power output of my conversion to be just right. I'm a hot rodder at heart and we can never have too much power, but this is good for an exciting level of touring.

Don't be afraid of fuel injection. You'll be glad you did in the end. Great drivability and reliability.

On that subject, Calvin mentioned fuel consumption. Katie and I just finished a trip through the states, 3,200 miles in 10 days. Man do you guys ever drive fast down there! I never get the chance to set my criuse control at 90 MPH up here in Canada without the real fear of the cops taking away my licence and impounding my car for a week. Anyway, I religiously calculate my fuel consumption every tank full to monitor the engine's efficiency and for my own curiosity. Mixed driving on my car is 22 MPG and highway is 26 MPG criusing between 70 and 80 MPH. Funny enough, those runs of 80 MPH actually gave me even better gas mileage. I suspect you won't honestly get as good mileage with a carburated engine.
Note: Those numbers are all to the tiny US gallon.

Good luck to you!

Kenneth,

By the way, show us some photos!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 10:38AM by TR6-6SPD.

Good day everyone,
thank you all for the information. The 1970 for I found was in bad shape, to bad to buy. You all have given me much to think about. I do think that taking one task at a time is the way to go. So as of now I am in the hunt for a body. Will have to give a deep thought to which direction I want to go in as for drive train package. I to am a hot rodder at heart so keeping my foot out of it has always been hard. The one thing I have decided is I am going with a after market frame. The only two I have found are the RATCO and FASTCARS. I have called and spoke with both owners and I must say they were very helpful. All in all I have found everyone connected with BritishV8 more than friendly and helpful. Thank you all again for everything. By the way I do plan to post photos as soon as I get parts and started. With everyone's permission I will try to do this from start to finish with photo's. This way I can get ideals and inputs from you all. Seeing that you all have been their and done that I am sure you can advise me well.

Hello, everyone I am back. I have found and bought a 1974 TR6. It not in great shape but it will do for the project. I want to keep a photo record so I can get as much help as I can from all of you out their. Right now I am do evals. on whats good and what is going to be change. Following Don's list I am at step 1 and planning to call about a wiring harness on Monday. If anyone has any ideals on wiring please pass them this way!!! As for frame I am thinking RATCO with a LS motor but I have time before I make the final on what is going under the hood. Alright everyone what can you tell me that I need to know so this will go as smooth as possible?

Ken, congratulations! You are off and running! I might be wrong, but when Don gave you his list, I think he was probably thinking along the lines of a project where you'd be using the frame that came with the car. Since you are planning to get an after market frame, you are doing a frame up build. You have plenty of work to do before you'll need your wiring harness -- and, unless you know exactly what you want in the end, you're better off buying parts shortly before needing them -- otherwise, as you change your mind, you'll end up with a stock-pile of parts you don't need after all. I did a bunch of body mods on my car & my project took way longer than I expected as a result. After 4.5yrs, I have at least $1500 in parts that I'll end up selling on here or eBay for fractions of what each part cost. Something to think about.

If it were me, I'd probably spend some time lining up the body on the existing frame 1st. That would do two things --- 1, you'd learn about how to do it & get some practice in & 2, you'd find any hidden damage to body panels that might need to be addressed where you can see where/how the frame moved rather than on your new frame when you've lost that reference & can't understand why something isn't lining up right.

Next, I'd get the new frame/chassis components to a rolling chassis & move the body over. Then fit the new engine/tranny. Then hydraulics (unless that can be done or partially done before the body goes on -- way easier than bending lines to fit under jack stands). Wiring is one of the last things to do in a ground up build like this IMO & if you get an 8 circuit harness & later decide you want things like A/C, electric fans, power windows or locks, etc., you might be thinking -- darn, I wish I'd have bought an 18 or 20 circuit harness.

If you do decide a harness designed for a fairly typical TR-6 is what you need, the Advance AutoWire harness is probably the best on the market!

So dig in, have fun, & buy what you need close to when you need it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2010 02:36PM by rficalora.

You are right. I spent sometime yesterday looking over the body and there is a lot of work to do you know the little things that can come back to bit you in the boot. I talked to a body and fender man also and he said the same thing that you did about lining up the body. He also told me to weld in some cross braces to keep the body ridge and door gaps right. But seeing that only the body and some suspenion parts are going to be used, I will spend today just gutting and look for any other problems.
So your project took 4 to 5 years? Oh yes I agreed not too buy untill you need the part and to have a direction on where I want to go. Thank you for reading and checking on me. Please stay in contact and keep me on the path. LOL

4.5yrs & not quite done yet -- but very close. My project is an MGB & in addition to learning as I went, I did a ton of body modifications & I worked them in between work, work travel, a wife, & 2 active kids. Now that I've figured a lot of this stuff out, I could probably do another one in 1/2 the time. You can see my project up to the point I took it to have it painted in the projects section. I haven't updated the project log since then though. Your project sounds very different in that the biggest part of your project is moving the car to a new chassis.

RE: But seeing that only the body and some suspenion parts are going to be used.
Don't under estimate all the little parts. As you disassemble, take the time to bag & catelog all the hardware, fittings, & other things that you may or may not need again (some of the stuff you think you won't need, you'll find later you do).

On another topic, what's behind your decision to get a new frame vs. use the one you have? Would probably be a good bit faster to do the engine swap using the chasis you have & move it to a new frame later if you decide you really want to.

The frame is beaten and badly rusted also patches from weld jobs really do not look up to spec. I did bag every thing I took of yesterday. Hey did you have to learn how to weld? I am thinking that is something I better start thinking about. Already looking at replacing floor pans.

Yes, I had to learn to weld. I'd done a little Oxegyn/Accetelin welding in a shop class back in Jr High but nothing since till this. Bought a MIG welder -- not too difficult to learn, just takes time/practice. I got a 220v unit, which came in handy for welding up a rotisserie & other heavier stuff; also worked for thinner sheet metal. 110V version would be sufficient if not doing anything heavy. One word of advice, some of the lower end models just use flux core wire, no gas. That's not really MIG welding. It works, but puts out a lot of splatter & it's hard to see what you're doing. Get a welder that you can use with gas. The gas tank & regulator will cost as much as the welder. Some welding supply places lease the tanks too which is less expensive initially. 75%Argon, 25% C02 is the gas mix for MIG. I'd have prefered to get a TIG welder & learn to TIG. Slower, but way nicer & softer welds (easier to clean up & hammer/dolly). TIG machines are in the $1000 range.

Thanks $1000 is not the range I can live with. So I will look for a MIG that has gas. Did you soda blast or sand blast to get a good look at what you were looking at as for metal repairs? I was thinking of getting a small soda blasting unit and doing a section at a time. Finding a lot of spots in the sheet metal with rust and some bad weld jobs. Did you get a plasma cutter or a air saw. I really can not thank you enough for your help. I am still bagging and tagging everything. On the up side the engine in this vehicle seem to be very strong and health. I need to clean and rebuild the strombergs but other than that its good. Luv the monza exhaust.

I stripped my car to bar body shell, put it on a rotisserie that I built (acutally my sones helped a lot with that) & took it to a local place that stripped it to bare metal, let me look at it, then epoxy primed it. Cost was $500 + about $100 for the Dupont expoxy primer materials (& they gave me the excess). It was too good of a deal to pass up as I'd have spent at least 1/2 to 2/3 of that pluse several weekends doing it myself. They used aircraft stripper on the body & engine bay and sand blasted the bottom & I think the trunk too (too long ago to recall for sure). They did a great job. I'm glad I did that becuase it did expose some hidden rust in one of the dog legs & one of the fenders -- way better to find it early & fix before paint than find it after paint when bubbles start showing through.

If you have someplace to do it & a big enough compressor, I'd look at the Eastwood soda blaster. It is relatively inexpensive & they have a water spray attachment that keeps the dust down. Could probably even do it in a driveway with that. Had I seen that before I had mine done, I'd probably have gone that route.

As for your body shell, you probably want to tack pics of what you are seeing and get input from the TR6 guys here. Sounds like the shell you bought might need a fair amout of work & best to get insigts from people who've been there/done that. I'm not familir with the TR bodies but recall reading there are some complexities to fendor/door alighment -- whether that's true or the complexities are in other areas you'll want to know what they are & make sure repairs in those areas are done right so you don't compound errors you'll need to re-fix later. At the end of the day it's only metal -- so any problem can be fixed. But it's way more efficient to fix it once rather than multiple times.

Man, the pain meds had me spelling worse than normal in that last post!! Anyway, forgot to mention, I did get a plasma cutter but honestly rarely used it. For body work I mostly used a cut-off wheel on an air die grinder (3") or cut off wheel on a 4 1/2" electric angle grinder. Tools were from Harbor Freight - cheap & worked well. Plasma came in handy when cutting some plate steel but could just as easily have used combination of the cut-off wheels & a jig saw with metal blade.