Triumph Sports Cars

High all,
I am new at this triumph v8 stuff however I love them to bits, to begin I would like to say that I love the euro sport car look and feel. Additionally I can not be without my american muscle. So I decided to take on a frankenstien project and found a good condition 67 gt6 with a bad motor. I am putting my 302 and toplaoder four speed from my maverick into this car. Both compents are healthy and working.

My 302 is a moderately biult one with an edlebrok intake and holly 750 carb. Flat tops and fresh rotating assembly. The tranny is a fresh gone through and shifts b.e.a.utifully.

I have already aquired a hydraulic converion kit for my transmission that allows me to utilize the master and lines already on the gt6. Also my transmission is already in and my driveline is cut and balanced. What I am looking for is if anyone nows what is the easyest way bolting the motor in and of course any hints or comments that would help me in my process.

Thanks,
Kenny

Hi Kenny, welcome to the forum. First let me say that I'm not a Triumph guy, but I'm pretty familair with the GT6 chassis and body. I really looked into one for myself when I was considering a second project a few years ago. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I can't think of two components that might be a worse match than a Ford 302 and the GT6 chassis. That's mainly because of the location of the steering rack in the GT6 chassis, the oringinal engine actually sits above it with an almost flat oil pan in order to clear and the small block Ford has the oil pump right up front and requires a fairly deep sump at that point.
If you move the engine back enough to clear the steering you might run into problems with clearance on the frame rails, as the main rails taper inwards at the firewall to run right down below the trans and drive shaft tunnel. Not to say it can't be done, but beware of some of the potential problem areas. Take a look at some of the Spitfire and GT6 conversions in the photo gallery and see what was done in these areas on those swaps. [www.britishv8.org] . Matt Kline did a 302 conversion, but it looks like he built a completely new frame section with new suspension.
In the rear you'll have to come up with something else besides the stock IRS. That differential isn't strong enough to hold even a mild 302 and the ratios aren't great either. I would seriously consider changing from the top loader to at Mustang T5 as it would give you an overdrive ratio that would work better with the 3.9 rear gear and also is a bit narrower because of the lack of side mounted shifter mechanism. There's little enough room inside a GT6, don't need to make it any smaller than you have to. As you can see from the attached photo of a stock GT6 chassis and drive train, it's pretty narrow down the middle to allow for some reasonable passenger room.

Can you do a Nissan differential swap like the TR6 guys, in order to keep the IRS?

Hey guys, thank for the info. i looked at it and i am still moving forward. Today I have amde alot of progress, withing 16 hours i have he frame prepped and painted. Also, within that 16 hours i have the motor and transmission in. so far all i have to do is move the radiator moutns back and make motor mounts. one hicup however is hood clearance! I do not want to cut but i will if i have too... lol any suggestions?

EGO?

Hey,
How are you making out with the conversion? I got sidetracked from my usual MG stuff and picked up a Spitfire that was in such good shape I couldn't pass it up. ( it is a sickness! ) It wasn't running when I bought it so spent a couple of days screwing around with it to get it up and running. The previous owner had put on a rebuild head and after that it wouldn't run. It was pretty wierd and think it was a combination of a lot of things. After getting it running and taking it for a spin realized it was popping out of 1st gear and the clutch slave cylinder needed a re-build on top of being slower than molasses. I made the mistake of looking at the 0-60 times from a Spitfire 1500 from back in the day and after seeing the 16 seconds times realized that leaving it stock was not an option. Scored a deal on a Chevy 4.3 V6 with wiring harness, ECM and 4L60 with 30 thousand on it. I've got enough fast stuff around here so would like more of a relaxing ride. Looks like the front frame rails need a bit of stretching out to get that auto to work and not sure what to use out back as just the physical small size of the stock rear rules out using it. I've got a narrowed Ford 8.8 and a Vette c4 IRS laying around. I'm surprised at the lack of conversions that have been done on Spitfires. I've had an idea about doing one since I saw the flip front end years ago.

I'm not sure where that EGO remark came from but keep up the hard work!! Comments on this forum seem to come out of nowhere but there are people that visit this website that do all this stuff for the challenge and could give a flip what others think. I'm sure I'll catch heck for cutting up a 54 thousand mile spitfire!
Bill

That EGO comment came from my stupid HTC phone! What I meant to say was EFI. To address the hood clearance issues. That's what I get for posting from my phone. It thinks it is smarter than I am.

Hey,
Hope Ken comes back and shows us how his build is going. Glad to hear it was a mistake with the Ego thing.
Bill

Hey Ken,
How ya making out with the swap? Probably way farther along than I am. I decided to go with the automatic with the 4.3 and that opened up a whole bag of worms! Had to cut and paste the frame just to have room for that wide load of a transmission. Left the existing frame rails in place and clamped up while it was being pieced in so the dimensions are all in the original places. Before doing anything to the frame I could lift up on the back corner and the frame would flex at least a half inch before anything would move on the front. Now, there is virtually no flex. Pix show it in more or less final location. Think I can move it back some more but have to look at the motor mounts and see what works best. Trying to make it so a LS series enging will slide right in. Still pondering the diff. I have that C4 rear but hate to cut it up. Kind of like the idea of keeping the swing suspension, just to be different. When I took it for a drive when it was stock the rear felt like it was on rollers as it was so loose. After taking a good look at the suspension not sure why it ever would feel solid. I'm thinking BMW or Subaru carrier and modify the links so there is something to keep it lined up.

Bill

Hey Guys,
Sorry for the delayed responces i have been really busy with school, coming up on finals.
But the project is coming along great! i have had some issues with clearnce here and there but nothing me and my handy dandy cuttingtorch couldnt fix.!!! My 750 carb and chevy style distributer are 3 1/2 inchs to tall so i faricasted a shaker style hood scoop that fit in the lines of the gt6's original design which look aswome very smooth almost like the car cam that way. i will be cutting aproximatly a 1x13 inch strip out of the less than 1/8 peace that acts kinda like a bumper so i can push my radiatior back an inch to fit in my elcetric fan. i also lowered the radiator from it mounting brackets by an inch so it height will clear. the fun time project will be my headers ! i will be bending them by hand to fit with help of my handy dandy torch i am using hooker pro comp heads from a 1975 maverick that i cut down to home made shortys ten inch overall tubes. however i am using them on opposits sides of the car ( left on right right one left). on the passanger side i will be bending the rear tubes away from the motor two inches to clear the frame and almost straight down next to the firewall the front tubes will NOT have to modified they already point foward and bend backward when i get the headers moded i will be running the exhaust from the front two under the suspension next to the frame into the back and to flange. the river side is ALOT MORE WORK. same basic as passanger however i have to bend the back to claer the steering arm and one of the fronts so that it goes under my power steering pump ( which is only used as a belt tensioner for my water pump becasue i am to chep to go electric lol ) right now i have clocked 32 hours in the project with probly another day and half more before i am the road. then the pricy comes in paint, there will probly be as much hours in paint than in the conversion. which i will be going back to the origanl color of british racing green with a much higher gloss

hey bill nice looking Spitfire and yeah that was one thing about the autos is that they are bigger trannys. it is strange though my tranny guys told me that my drag c4 was smaller than my toploder. ? i do not think so but they have been transmissions for a lot longer time than i have been doing well anything lol . but that frame mod looks good however looking at it with knowing deminsions it looks as if you put nay power or torque on it the flex point will be right at the crossmeber type bar right at the back of your tranny. But i could be wrong with knowing demsions or specs on your motor. however as far as rear end goes use that corvette IRS i think it will be a more practicle application. but if you decided to go with that 8.8 let me know how it goes i have one from my mav that i biult for my motor and if it is an easy task then i may considered the conversion for mine ( to avoid further unnecesary cost) good luck though it looks like your making progress.

Dan, yeah i hate text messaging for that reason lol

Another thing about the bonnet hood or flip front end is that is what got my hard on the project too!

can you send or post pictures, i have a complte gt6, but wanted to convert to any automatic, whatever type American or import, to make it a dailey driver.

i will be finishing up with the project soon, and will post after... also waiting on the soft ware for the camera... it is a bit out dated but the old lady is working on that part of i will have a complete run down of everything hopefully with more detail than taht of Dan Masters, who did a GREAT job on his project

Hey Ken,
Glad to hear you are still on task! It will be worth it the first time you take it for a spin! Nothing like a V8 in a light car! I'm hoping the V6 has enough power to keep me happy. I've got a BMW center section coming in on Monday. Figure I'll keep the vette rear for another project. Got the frame painted and the motor bolted in today.

I know what you mean about the twisting point but I think there is enough bracing to hold it together. For that matter there is probably enough welding wire in it to keep it from twisting! Nobody can accuse me of skimping on welds!

If I remember right a C4 is pretty darn small but not sure in what direction it would be smaller than a toploader? The shifters always screw me up! Never seem to remember how much width they add to the tunnel! Seems like I always end up adding a "hump" to the tunnel!

to david: There are a few pictures of frame mods for the automatic. I used 2x4 tubing for the main frame rail. It's tied into the frame in front of the front axle. It was a surprise as to the amount of rust in the bottom of the frame rails. Some of it was pretty thin and I was glad that I hadn't tried to place the V6 without mods to the frame! It would have twisted like a pretzel! This was a low mileage Florida car so I can imagine how much rust there would be in a northern car!

Cheers,
Bill

Hey,
Ao you have a BMW center coming? is this somthing that could take a V8 and how har is the install?
I am looking at what would fit best good for gears and options with minimal conversion to the rear end

Hey Ken,
Got the BMW center section today, ( gotta love ebay!) It's 11 inches from flange to flange compared to 10 3/8" for the stock Spitfire. The rear supports look like they will work with a couple of tabs on the rear crossover and the front can be hung from a cross piece. I'll have to come up with axle adaptors which will add some to the width. I really don't know much about the BMW rears except they don't seem to break very often. The flange is attached to the diff and the price was right. I haven't measured the axle shafts on the Spitfire but they don't look very much smaller than the late model GTO shafts that are in my MGB.

I never busted the stock axle on my old MGB with a 283 and I used to beat on it pretty good. Sure, torque will destroy a rear but there is a big difference between a 3500# car and a 2000 pound car. I would run the stock rear but it just looks so darn small!

Cheers,
Bill

question to all, will a gt6 body fit on any other car?
need to know if there is another car with a full frame with the same 83 inch wheel base?

Hi David,
Not sure what the wheel base is but it might be what you are looking for. [cgi.ebay.com] Sure would be interesting. Not sure how the torque tube would merge into the stock frame for the mounting points of the body. The frame of a Spitfire/GT6 is a little difficult to accept alternative engine/frame swaps. The stock one does a good job of keeping the car low to the ground and gives pretty good head room. There may be other frames that are similar but I don't know of any. You may want to look at an S10 frame if the Vettte doesn't do anything for you. Major work to merge them. Whats wrong with your frame?

I'm waiting on a mcmaster carr shipment for some metric hardware for the BMW rear.
Bill

Wheelbase is about 105". For a TR6 you'd end up cutting about 18" out of it (and having a $2000+ custom torque tube made up).
It's also much much wider than a TR6 - like a foot or so wider, and the torque tube is huge compared to the TR cabin.

I know the OP has a GT6, but I looked at this for a TR6 a while back, which is why I have the measurements still engraved. I actually bought the suspension components, diff and a few other pieces for my build from that place. They'll sell you a sweet LS2 setup from a newer Vette to drop under one of the FF GTM kits for only a little more.

One thing I'd like to see is a TR-anything widened that much and slapped on top of a shortened drivetrain.
Sorta like the German GT6 that now looks like a 914 that's in the photo section, but with a bit more oomph.

Sorry for the hijack...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2010 10:21PM by alana.