Triumph Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" V8s (Stag and TR8)

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BWA


(298 posts)

Registered:
04/13/2010 08:13PM

Main British Car:


I am in the planning stages
Posted by: BWA
Date: April 13, 2010 08:57PM

I am in the process of procurring a TR6 either a 72 or a 76 both being low mileage and fairly clean. I am aware of the limitations of the TR6 engine having low horsepower and having a weak bottom end as well as being a gas guzzler because of the limitations of a 4 speed transmission.
I have two choices that I am contemplating:
A/keep the TR6 engine and do the following:
1/Shave the head to increase compression to 9 to 1
2/Install throttle body fuel injection (I can buy a conversion kit)
3/Install electronic ignition
4/Install an electric fan
5/Install a Toyota 5 speed transmission (Conversion kits are available)
I think the above engine modifications would up the horsepower to about 150 hp and would increase the gas mileage.

B/Install a 2007 4.0 litre Ford V6 engine with EFI (this engine will put out 210 hp with 240 ft/lbs of torque) with a tremec t6 transmission.
I have done the math and the TR6 engine upgrade is about $1300 cheaper than the Ford engine transplant.
My question is in the long run which is the better route in terms of reliability and being easier to do? I am not very experienced with electronic components my strength lies in structural design and fabrication.
My other question is I have noticed that most v6 engines used in these conversions are Buick or GM is there any inherent reason why Ford V6 engines are not used?
My final question is will the TR6 rearend handle 240 ft/lbs of torque? I do not plan on doing burnouts or any drag racing.
Thanks for you time and consideration.


alana
alan atkinson
10567
(232 posts)

Registered:
06/19/2008 08:06PM

Main British Car:
68 TR250 LS2

authors avatar
Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: alana
Date: April 14, 2010 03:20AM

The changes you are proposing to your TR6 engine won't get you anywhere near 150hp unless you change the cam. Even then you'll be lucky to get it up that high without doing some additional work. Convertiing to fuel injection doesn't get you any significant power improvements over carbs - what it does is to improve the driveability.

A far better value proposition for increased power is to stick a supercharger kit on a rebuilt stock engine.

If you are set on keeping the TR6 engine, adding overdrive will add value to the car plus make it a far more relaxed cruiser. It costs roughly the same as a W58 conversion to purchase, but at least you'll get most of the $ back when you go to sell. If you ~must~ have a 5 speed, consider also the T5 conversion that's available. Mainly for the vast array of transmissions that are out there as W58s are getting harder to come by.

The stock TR6 rear end is good for about 200hp. If you want to put more power through there, look at converting to an R200 - a kit is available. If you are going to be putting more power through it budget also for uprating the hubs and halfshafts as they are a known weakness.

I don't know much about the Cologne engines other than they look pretty wide with all the ancilliaries on. Measure carefully to be sure it'll fit before you go this route. One other engine you might want to consider is the 3.6 V6 from the CTS (the LY7). Apparently it fits without cutting, puts out 280hp and they are available used relatively inexpensively. The hardest part to this conversion (I'm told) is finding the manual transmission.


BWA


(298 posts)

Registered:
04/13/2010 08:13PM

Main British Car:


Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: BWA
Date: April 23, 2010 12:13AM

Today I drove up to Edmonton (Alberta, Canada) and purchased a 76 Tr6 with an over drive for a real good price. The guy was retiring and moving back east and did not want to take it with him so he chopped $2000.00 off the price to get rid of it. The car is real clean and has almost no rust on it. It has 80000 miles on it but the engine still is fairly decent.
A friend of mine has a 2007 Ford ranger with a V6 so I will go and and measure it up and will post the dimensions for those who are interested.
I will also be checking on what Tremec has available for bell housings for this engine and posting this info also. I don't expect too much of a problem as these engines are found in 2004 to 2009 Mustangs.
Alan thanks for your input. I am sure I will be asking you and many others lots of questions
Trimmed IMG_0619.jpg


dwtr6v8
Don Watson
West Virginia
(234 posts)

Registered:
12/07/2007 07:45AM

Main British Car:
1974 TR6 Ford 5.0 HO

authors avatar
Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: dwtr6v8
Date: April 24, 2010 10:36AM

Byron,

Congrats on the new ride and welcome to the family.

Here is a little info for you.

engine lbs
Ford 3.8 V6-90 351 (w/start, alt, less clutch)
Ford 3.8 V6-90 311 ("fully dressed")
Ford Duratec 2.5/3.0 V6 360 ("fully dressed")
Ford CDW27 60 deg V6 365 "as delivered to assembly plant"
Ford/Mazda Mondeo V6 225 60 deg, all aluminum, 4v

Ford Engine Dimensions
Engine Family LxWxH in inches,
221-260-289-302 29 x 24 x 27.5
Boss 302 29 x 24.5 x 28.5
351 Cleveland 29 x 25.5 x 27.5
351 Windsor 29 x 25 x 29
FE Series 352-390-406-410-427-428 32 x 27 x 29
Boss 429 34 x 30 x 30
385 Series 429-460 34 x 27 x 30
427 SOHC 34 x 32 x 30
4.6L SOHC or DOHC 36 x 36 x 44

You may have a ton of fabrication to do as I think the 4.0 V6 is vert wide. (others please chime in here) I have not been able to get details on 4.0 V6 Cologne SOHC

If you can get it to fit I would look at Turbo and supercharging, Turbo Technics Produced Single and Twin, as the stock is rated at 210hp, so a little help will go a long way.


I went with a 5.0 V8, narrow and easy fit, tons of room for hp improvements!


BWA


(298 posts)

Registered:
04/13/2010 08:13PM

Main British Car:


Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: BWA
Date: April 24, 2010 12:19PM

Don thanks for your input you are probably right that the 4.0 l v6 may be too wide because it is a SOHC, it may even be wider than a Ford 302. I will get the measurements and post them anyways. I may have to look at older Ford v6 or Gm v6 engines that are not SOHC.
My philosophy on this project is one of balance between 3 variables: power, gas mileage, and reliability. I have driven Honda Civics for the past 19 years and I have been spoiled with having driven cars that are reliable, get good mileage (40+ mpg) and perform very nicely. My present car is a 2003 SIR. Mileage is important because up here in Canada gas is a around $4.54 per gallon (imperial gallons) if you convert to your smaller US gallon it is $3.78 per gallon. When you look at all the trends the cost of gasoline will continue to go up.
I am not expecting to get 40+ mile per gallon out of this car but I do think that 30 to 35 is possible if you go with EFI on an engine that has horsepower in the range of 160 to 200 that has a torque range of about the same. If you couple this type of engine with a 5 or 6 speed transmission that can get the RPM's down for highway driving then good mileage is possible.
Last week I went to a local car show and talked to a guy that got an awesome turbo charged Nissan engine and transmission from Japan for a measly sum of $3500.00. He had put this engine in his 510 Datsun the only downside to this engine was that you would have to order parts from Japan to fix it. This is the reliability issue that pushes me to either domestic engines or Japanese engines that are available over here.
If any of you guys out there on this forum have any good ideas I am open. In the meantime I will be continuing my research. Thanks for your time and consideration.


tr6turbo
Dale Knapke
Sidney, Ohio
(156 posts)

Registered:
08/24/2008 09:44PM

Main British Car:
1972 Triumph TR6 Ford 2300, 4 Cyl Turbo

Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: tr6turbo
Date: April 24, 2010 02:06PM

Brian, I did the 2.3 turbo Ford from a Thunderbird Torbocoupe. Check it out in the Photo Gallery under the name Dale Knapke. I get 400 RWHP and close to 30 MPG. A stock 2.3 turbo will do about 200 and and a few modifications can bring it to over 250 while keeping good low end. I lost some low end but still very streetable. I put about 5,000 miles on it every summer. Since the write up I have improved my best 1/4 mile time to 10.87 @ 128 MPH. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have.

Dale


alana
alan atkinson
10567
(232 posts)

Registered:
06/19/2008 08:06PM

Main British Car:
68 TR250 LS2

authors avatar
Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: alana
Date: April 24, 2010 03:25PM

Then if you want cheap, good power, decent mileage and reliable, look at the 4 cylinder Ecotec engine.
Have a look at this if you want to make it a really easy install - [quad4rods.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2010 03:44PM by alana.



dwtr6v8
Don Watson
West Virginia
(234 posts)

Registered:
12/07/2007 07:45AM

Main British Car:
1974 TR6 Ford 5.0 HO

authors avatar
Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: dwtr6v8
Date: April 24, 2010 03:30PM

I really like Dale's modifications.

If your thinking about GM V6......check out this little red TR6.

Although not part of the BV8, bowtie6 has posted comments in different threads.
(as well as www.6-pack,org)

www.bowtie6.com

You can also email him at info@bowtie6.com (listed on his website)


BWA


(298 posts)

Registered:
04/13/2010 08:13PM

Main British Car:


Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: BWA
Date: April 26, 2010 06:22PM

Today I went up to Edmonton and picked up my TR6 and drove it back; it is a 3 hour drive back to Calgary. I found out that I will be busy in the next while fixing little things in the interior:
Speedometer needs to be fixed;it read 55 mph when I followed my Civic which was doing 65 mph, what is the right tire diameter for these cars?
The tripmeter control needs fixing
The wiper switch needs fixing
The heater control valve needs to adjusted
I have a dumb question for you guys. I drove back with the top up and the wind noise was horrible. Is this normal can anything be done about it? I am sure it is much quieter with the top down. If nothing can be done I will have to use earplugs on long trips if I have the top up.
Other than the above issues the car is great and it performed as I expected it would: leisurely acceleration and 24 miles per gallon (this would be 20 mpg Us gallons).
Thanks for all your input I have lots of stuff to chew for the next while in fixing these deficiencies and planning the new drive train.


Dan B
Dan Blackwood
South Charleston, WV
(888 posts)

Registered:
11/06/2007 01:55PM

Main British Car:
1966 TR4A, 1980 TR7 Multiport EFI MegaSquirt on the TR4A. Lexus V8 pl

authors avatar
Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: Dan B
Date: April 27, 2010 10:56AM

Should be quieter with the top up. Did you have the windows down, rear window zipped out?

According to Moss, TR6 stock tires are 185/80-15, 677mm diameter.


Dan B


BWA


(298 posts)

Registered:
04/13/2010 08:13PM

Main British Car:


Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: BWA
Date: April 27, 2010 11:36AM

Dan thanks for you reply. The tires are big meaty 205's so they are too tall, nevertheless the speedo needle has a bit of waver in it so it needs a bit of work.
The windows were rolled up. Later on my buddy and I were looking at the top and we noticed a number of pinholes on the front edge of the top that would contribute to whistle noise. I think that the front rubber seal may be compromised and is contributing to wind noise. I plan on getting a new top hopefully this thing will quiet down.
The voltmeter is reading about 14 volts should I be concerned about this?
Byron


Russ Bellinis
Russ Bellinis

(15 posts)

Registered:
09/06/2016 02:15AM

Main British Car:


Re: I am in the planning stages
Posted by: Russ Bellinis
Date: February 25, 2017 03:37PM

With the engine running and a good battery the volt meter should read between 13.5-14 volts. With engine shut off but the key on, you should see 12-12.5 volts. Reading with the engine running is the alt. output. With ignition on but engine not running you would be reading Battery voltage.


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