Triumph Sports Cars

Right, Introductions: Ivan, canuck, poor, etc...

Before I start, a little background to explain my train of thought.

Last summer I bought a 1963 spitfire in very rough shape.
I had wanted an old British car for a while and I definitely preferred the curves on the old spits. Up north (Manitoba) where I live, finding that sort of car for a price I can afford is difficult since they seem to either rust into oblivion or are sold by people who completely overprice the cars.



So this particular car was cosmetically complete and had been sitting since the mid 70's in a shed. It was removed from the shed for the last two years of storage since the shed was collapsing. It sat under a tarp for two years where I suspect the majority of the damage happened. Overall the car was quite straigh, passenger door opens without difficulty and the drivers side sags a bit. Rust is mostly on the rocker panels and foot wells, everything else is light surface rust.

I brought it home and let it sit in a shelter over the winter while I dealt with university. I had initially wanted to restore it to stock, but id been secretly toying with the idea of a swap. This was certainly influenced by my grandfather's two v8 alpines but anyway...

I started to slowly take bits off over the winter and got the engine out a few months ago. Managed to get the motor out and to a warm garage. What happened next is what mostly established my direction for this. Basically it wont start, the compression in one of the cylinders is completely buggered. A frost plug popped out some 30years ago and was plugged with a rag, loads of rust in and around the block. Wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason it was parked.



At the end of the day, rebuilding the engine to stock would be beyond my budget, so I started to look for a temporary replacement till I could actually afford to rebuild it. At this point though, I'm going to go the whole 9 yards. I Initially didn't want to, since I wasn't sure how it would affect resale should I have to sell it, and I liked the appeal of stock. The idea of a swap had become increasingly difficult to ignore. 60hp + 4speed when 80% of the driving I'm doing is highway just didn't seem that fun.

So I found a (1990?) 2.3l ford mustang motor for $70 (I think it also has the 89 ranger crankshaft). My grandfather has a mustang 5 speed that I can use which would need a light rebuild. Basically its cheaper to do a swap than to go stock.



So now, I get to what I would like to find out.

Tips& tricks

What should I keep an eye out for?

Recommended reading; books, websites, etc...

I figure at some point down the road (or during resto) I would like to install a turbo and try to get ~200hp out of this motor. While more would be fun, I understand the stock frame would have a hard time taking much more power than that. Still, 200hp in such a light car is quite a bit, and I really want to avoid having to do any extensive mods to the frame.

To take that sort of power, I imagine much of the drive train needs upgrading/replacing. What parts would be worth looking for? easiest to install?

rear suspension? I know that the early suspension was prone to understeer. What can/should be done about that?

I essentially want to do this right the first time and have as little surprises as possible down the road.

edit: Also, since the transmission needs to be rebuilt would changing the gear ratio be a good idea? if so, to what? etc...

edit2: I remembered this afternoon that this is a carbureted engine, which would make installing a turbo difficult if not counter productive. Rather than go through that hassle, down the road I could just swap it with a mustang i4 with EFI and stock turbo. End result would be the same.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:11PM by Ivan.

Ivan welcome to the world of improving LBC's! I hope you will not get hit by the coming flood out your way.
Before you do anything check out all the Spitfires in the photo-galleries. If you can get a hold of Max Brewster as I am sure he could give you lots of good advice on how to replicate the rearend in his car.
My personal advice and this depends on what your fabrication skills are; I would sack the rearend and go with a narrowed 8" Ford rearend with four link suspension. These rearends are tough and will eliminate the wacky geometry of the old Spitfire rearend.
Find out what gear ratios are in that Ford transmission. Just get the ID tag number off the side of the transmission and look up the Identification Guide to Borg-Warner t5 Transmissions in British V8 newsletter Volume XV Issue 2, Sept 2007.
The 2.3L SVO transmissions from 84 to 86 had the ratios
1st 4.03 3.5 in 1985
2nd 2.37 2.14 in 1985
3rd 1.49 1.39 in 1985
4th 1.00
5th .81 .78 in 1985
Since your car will be much lighter than the Mustang you can go with the v8 t5 transmission which gives you the following ratios 2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, and .68. If this transmission has this ratio then it would be ideal as you do not need a "stump puller" first gear for a light car and the 5th gear ratio would help to give you good mileage.
The SVO rearend for 1984 was 3.73:1 which would work nicely with the v8 t5 transmission. So if you locate an 8" Ford rearend with a ratio that is close to this then you have a good setup. If you could locate a limited slip rearend then it would be ideal.

the v8 t5's also have a 3.35 first gear available.most were except the world class t5.i have the 3.35 in mine and it is a 1988 trans.

I've been examining all the pictures on the spitfire conversions for the last few months before finally committing to this.

Currently, my metal fabrication skills are non-existent. I can assure you though, they will be up to par by the time I need to deal with the rear end.

I don't have the serial for the transmission on hand (I will later this week though), but if I remember right, it came out of a early 90's turbo Thunderbird. I was also mistaken about it needing a rebuild, it has actually been recently rebuilt.

I will actually be starting full disassembly of the car during May. My workspace is perhaps a bit unique in that I'm working in a temporary shelter for which I am installing a floor this weekend. This also means I'm limited to working on it when its not winter...



I guess I should start a project journal soon :)

that's a nice shelter you have there.looks like lots of room to work on a spit.what ya gonna use for a floor in it?

I'm going to be laying 2x6x12 beams across width wise and nailing some OSB flooring stuff (4x8 sheets) over it. The nice thing about this, is that when I move out from my parents within the next two years, is that I can move it to my future house.

The pictures are from last fall when I just finished putting it up, its since been beaten and battered by the elements. Still works fine, just not as pretty.

For anyone living in warmer climate with enough yard to accommodating, I would definitely recommend this sort of setup. The tent itself (24'x12') was $600 on sale at canadian tire, and the floor is going to cost ~$250, give another ~$200 or so for lighting, wiring and some homemade shelving and you get yourself a resonable workspace for less than $1k

i have two shelters each is 20x10.i made a frame that goes around the perimeter out of 2x8 and screwed the shelter down to it.keeps it from blowing around.i also put a sheetmaetal screw at every joint where the tubing slides together.it makes it really strong.DO NOT use osb man if you can help it.it won't last long at all ,it rots quickly.plywood or planking is better but more expensive but at least you will still have it in six months.lol also i have had mine for 5 years and it is still standing after harsh canadian winters.do yourself a favour and buy a big tarp and put it over the top now before the sun starts to break it down.it really helps alot.stay away from the blue and green poly tarps and get the silver 14x14 mesh tarp.i get mine from princess auto but crappy tire will have them.the cheap tarps have a 10x10 mesh and are junk.tie it down with poly rope instead of black bungees like i initially did as the sun rots them in a few months.i just fixed this problem today on mine so i am talking from expereince.lol .it costs a bit more this way but will make it last a lot longer.my friends shelter only lasted about 18 months as he did not do any of the above.good luck.

Is this a Canadian thing?
I have one too!
Mine is up at the cabin keeping the toys dry.
The tarps didn't even make it through the first winter.
My dad suggested metal roofing. After we stopped laughing at him it became apparent that it was a good idea.
Went to the local used building supply place (Bent Nail) and bought a bunch of corrugated roofing and roofing screws.
Layed down some Tyvec ( the second time) as the tin roof sweats. And screwed the roof to the framework
The roofing conforms perfectly to the shape of the metal frame.
The ends are now corrugated as well and we even have windows, lights and insulation as of last year.
All together I've got maybe $1200 into this thing including the original structure and it's solid as a rock.
The permit police were kept at bay as it's still a portable structure and the lights are on an extension cord.
If I had to do it again I would just buy the used framework and cut the cost probably in half.

Cheers
Fred

It probably is a Canadian thing.

I'll see how long the fabric lasts on this, after which I can worry about something more sophisticated. It is relatively sheltered, only gets north winds and 1/3 of a days worth of sun.

OSD is no good then? It would be about 6" off the ground, I can even lay some vapor barrier between it and the ground.

Guess I'll try and source some inexpensive plywood... I'll start with laying the support beams on the ground though since I still need to have them level which will take a reasonable amount of work.

I'm going to make some brackets and stuff for my motor tomorrow so I'll grab the serial for the transmission then. I imagine it should be a good match, my grandfather had it in the alpine before he accidentally put cooling fluid in instead of transmission fluid. He found out quickly enough though, hence the full rebuild.

osb is terrible for anything outside where there is moisture.not very strong to walk on either never mind the weight of a car.

But its soo cheap :(

Ah well, there are times to be cheap, times to be thrifty, and times where a dollar is well spent. Floors are one of those I guess...

I'm "floored" by the jacking of this tfred/oop's thread! lol. My northern neighbors, volume tends to make value, ie., 1 1/8" T&G flooring cost LESS than 3/4" ply., at least, down here. Hey it's Canada-jus' call it a Tepee. Cheers, roverman.

DUDE !WE DO IGLOOS NOT TEEPEE'S! lol well alright in the summer we do teepee's,but they better not have any running water.we don't want are neighbors to the south to think we have evolved in any way .lol

I've finally started to make some progress in the last while!

got the floor finished, now, I need to get some power so I can get some light and power tools.

and then, a few weekends ago, I brought the car over to my grandfather's to fit the motor since I've yet to buy all the fancy tools.







and Voila, motor fits, got mounts made, and now I can start taking the whole car apart.

And for reference, here's one of my grandfather's Alpines

fantastic job on that floor man.motor fits good i see.keep up the good work bud.

Hey, Your grandpa must be Chuck! Heck of a nice guy! I got some parts and info for my Alpine from him. Boy, I wish he would post over here too.

@ mgb260

he is indeed Chuck! I might try and persuade him to post here, but I know that he doesnt spend much time on forums.

progress on the car has been a bit slow lately thanks to university and winter. I'll likely start a proper project log once things start to get underway.

the car is currently in pieces awaiting transmission mounts, after which ill finalize the rear end. After that, all I have to do is put everything back together!

Ivan, See if you could help Chuck do a "How it was done" article on his Alpine and Lemans replica. Curtis makes it easy to just fill in the blanks on the form. By the way, your project is coming along fine. Speedway Motors has hop up stuff for the 2.3 Ford as it is popular in Pony Stock racing.