Triumph Sports Cars

I just bought a Spitfire and fixed it up to pass inspection and emissions only to have it throw a rod on my way to getting the plates. I've been looking into my options, and there happens to be a Mazda 13b for sale in my area, complete with transmission. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions about doing this swap? Also, I am very inexperienced with working on cars, so is there anybody here who could explain to me what an engine swap entails? I am prepared to be patient and learn as much as i need to in order to get this car running again, and i have a close friend who is an experienced mechanic. I just have basic questions about doing a swap - How do you connect an engine to a frame without the mounts for that engine? How do you connect a different engine and transmission to the original driveshaft? Can you keep the same differential and axle shafts when installing a new engine? Are there any other tips and tricks to do this as well as possible? I appreciate anybody who is willing to take the time to answer any of my questions. Thank you.

Grass Roots Motorsports did a Mazda Rotory swap about 5 to 6 years ago in a Spitfire. It was a very clean and straight forward project with minor cliping/noching to get the engine in.

Welcome to the forum!


Typically, one of the early steps to a conversion is welding new mounting bosses onto the car's frame that will support the engine. Some people buy these steel brackets already made and trim them to size, but most of us start with simple materials like box-section tubing, etc., and design our own. As I recall, typical engine mounts are shown/described especially well here: [www.britishv8.org] - then, once all the steel parts are very carefully cut and ground to a line-to-line and shiny-metal-to-shiny-metal fit, if you don't have welding equipment or a great deal of confidence in your welding skills, it's usually economical to transport your project temporarily to a local welding shop.

Driveshafts are usually a relatively easy part of the project... because most people just measure what they need and then look for a local Dana-Spicer shop to make it happen. Budget about $200-$250 for a custom driveshaft, depending on where you live, etc. Most driveshaft shops make their living repairing big trucks, but can whip out a car driveshaft quickly and easily. (Mine was made while I was on lunch break from work.) You may need to supply the "ends", but they'll supply virgin tubing and fit new u-joints. They'll spin balance the whole assembly too, while you watch.

For your swap, it's unlikely you'll need a new differential. Even if you decide to go that way, that's usually something that can be upgraded later. For a first-timer, there's a lot to be said for just getting the car running before addressing differential, suspension, brakes, bodywork, interior, etc., etc.

This message board's Project Journal section has a lot of in-process swap photography you'll want to check out. Lots of good ideas there for you, even though your rotary/Spitfire combination is pretty rare. Don't get discouraged... it should be a good combination and a straightforward project once you get going. Don't hesitate to post here as you have more specific questions.

[www.britishv8.org]
[www.britishv8.org]

These two should give you some ideas.

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions and help so far. Im going to go check out the engine hopefully tomorrow so ill make measurements to try to see how it will fit. If I can get the engine with the transmission for 400 dollars, what is a rough estimate of the cost of fabricating the mounting bosses, a custom driveshaft and what other modifications might need to be made, assuming that the engine fits without modification to the bonnet?

Hi Nicolas,
Sounds like a great swap and should be pretty easy. It's actually a great first swap as the engine is so accesible because of it's small size. Exhaust is simple and the electrical should be simple depending on how far you go with the electronics. I would suspect that you probably have a mechanical aptitude, just for the fact that you are on this website. Instead of paying someone else to do the work how about investing in some education on welding and buying some tools? There are still some night courses available for welding in some places. I'm sure if you looked around you could find someone to show you the basics on welding. Heck, my old neighbor was a welder on the Nautilus and showed me some tricks. He enjoyed showing me his knowledge and I learned a lot plus learned a little history! RIP Mr. Carter!

My first non-bolt in swap was a RX3 engine in a Vega! Nothing but basic hand tools and a stick welder.

Cheers,
Bill

Another Question - If i buy the 13b engine and transmission, would it not work without the ecu, turbo, wiring and radiator?

You will need the ECU, wiring harness and sensors that aren't mounted on the engine to make it work. As for the radiator, it may fit, it may not, but you'll definitely need more cooling capacity than the original Spitfire unit. If the Mazda unit won't fit budget more on upgrading the radiator. You'll also want the electric cooling fan and relay. The fuel pump will be needed, it's a high pressure type designed for use with fuel injection and you'll need either a return line to the tank for excess fuel or a "swirl pot" in the fuel supply line.
If you can negotiate one price for everything you can strip off the Mazda then take as much as you possibly can. Electrical parts, even lamps and headlights can save you money in the long run or be sold or traded to raise money for your project. You'll want the driveshaft as well, as Curtis said, you'll have to supply the ends for the new shaft and you'll need the output yoke for sure.
I hope you have patience for the swap, it will take far longer than you probalby realize to complete, especially for someone on a limited budget and with limited experience. We're here to answer your questions when we can and lend support.
Motor mounts shouldn't be too expensive to fabricate. If you're creative you may well be able to design a mount that will bolt to the original mountings in front and to the stock Mazda insulators on the engine.
A low cost method of designing brackets like these is to use 1/4" plywood and a hot melt glue gun. You can cut the plywood to shape, drill holes as needed and bolt it into place then attach other pieces to it with glue. When you have the shape you want you can heat the glue with a heat gun and disassemble the part and then have it cut from sheet steel and welded up.
The worst part of such a project is often access to a source for steel stock for mounts etc. You may be able to buy new stock if there is a shop similar to what we have in KC [www.metalbythefoot.com] , if not then you'll have to check scrap yards or even with local fabrication shops for their scrap cut offs. Most hardware stores and home stores sell steel stock but the size selection is limited and the prices are pretty high.
Before you set the engine in place and build mounts you need to make sure that the alignment is right on. The centerline of the engine and trans needs to be exacly parallel to the pinion on the differential, otherwise you can get some nasty driveshaft vibrations from the u-joints.
It can be a challange, it can be frustrating, it can be fun, but the end result if you engineer it well will be a great car that you will totally enjoy because you built it. Worth all the effort in the end.

Nicholas, Welcome aboard. You may want to check out "Granny's Speed Shop", on-line.They specialize in Mazda/rotary speed parts. Good Luck, roverman.

Mazda radiator should fit fine. I'm using an RX 3 unit for my 4AGE engine swap. New mounting brackets need to be fabricated but Mazda unit is low enough and fits nice once the original spity chassis rad mounts are removed.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 08:40PM by Sparrow010.

posted to the wrong thread...though i am following this one closely and like what you are doing!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 11:51AM by mildo04.