Triumph Sports Cars

Hi, new member here.

I'm just about to finish university (in the UK) and have been toying with a project for the summer.

One of the main options is an engine-swapped Spit.

The choices of engine I've been thinking about are either a BMW M54B30 3.0l I6 from a 330i or a 4.0l AJV8 from a Jaguar XJ. There's multiple examples of both at my local scrapyard.

The I6 has about 228bhp stock and the V8 has about 290bhp. Would I need to reinforce the frame/fabricate a new one to handle the torque?

Have either of these been attempted before?

Thankyou in advance.

Simon,

Anything can be done, but there are much lighter and smaller ways to to get 200-300hp. Check out the VTEC TR4A in the posting near yours. Moded Miata engines are also a good option.

George

Simon I agree with George. You should check out all the modified Spitfires in the photo galleries section. The Spitfire has 2 things about it that are kind of challenging for engine swaps. The hood is quite low so if you do not like hood scoops you are going to have to use an engine that has a low profile. The other issue is that the frame is shaped like an hour glass and this configuration will determine how back you can move the drive train and how low you can place the drive train.
I think you will find that the 4 cylinder engine is the best configuration for this car.

Cheers
Byron

Quote:

Would I need to reinforce the frame/fabricate a new one to handle the torque?

Yes.

Is not the "rubber biscuit", the enemy of torsional and beam strength ? Most suspension parts or modular units are rubber isolated betweem frame or unit body. Why not rigid mount body to frame and obtain some synergism of torsional and beam strength ? Rubber isolate the suspension, as most cars are, and whala ! Cheers, roverman.

I've always thought on some these smaller cars with bigger V8s it would be interesting to investigate some type design in which the motor was integral part of the frame, similar to Formula cars or, closer to home, many motorcycles.

I thought as much. To be honest, I was considering it just because I like the idea of a big-engined British drop-top. Other options, which seem a lot more feasible, include buying one of the Stag bodyshells I've seen for sale and putting the Jag V8 in that.

I've measured the M54 engine and it's both lower and shorter (just) than the Triumph I6, if I've got the measurements for that correct. Does the GT6 have a different frame to the Spitfire?

The trouble is, I'm pretty certain that they would mess up the balance of the car quite severely, so a 4cylinder would probably be best. I think I'd prefer a Sprint-spec triumph engine though, even with the sacrifice of power and reliability. It's never going to be a daily driver anyway.

Hi Simon,

Is the only reason you are looking at a Jag V8, that they are available in the local scrap yard? It's just that I have heard that they can be troublesome, also I suspect that you would need to transfer a lot of electronics etc to get one to work.

How do they compare in size to Rover V8's? - would you have to use an auto box? - in which case the Spitfire chassis will cause big problems as it is very narrow around the gearbox area.

I have nothing against Jags - I had a manual 4.2 XJ6 (1985) a few years ago and am just about to buy a 1996 XJ6 Sport.

My Spitfire has a Rover V8 and LT77 gearbox in it, and produces enough power to be really fun to drive.
The Rover way is tried and tested, and I suspect easier than trying to fit the Jag V8 - but don't let me put you off, if you think the Jag would fit I would love to see it done - anything can be done if you try hard enough - there is even a Jag V12 in a GT6 on this site, but truth be said, the body is about all that is original GT6, awesome piece of work that it is.

The GT6 chassis is the same as a Spitfire, the only real difference was the rear suspension.

Now then - - - A Jag V8 in a Stag - - that sounds interesting!

Graham

I have seen pictures of a Lexus V8 in a TR7. So you should be able to put a Jaguar V8 in one instead.

Unless you stay with the auto box, mating a manual transmission to the AJV8 will present a few challenges. I understand the autobox and engine management systems are integrated so you may need an alternative engine managent solution such as Emerald or Megasquirt (which is a kit).

David,

I was talking to a guy the other day with an old Lexus and he said his had a 5litre V6 in it - I wonder how big that engine is? - but then again I bet you would have to have an auto.


Graham

Hi Graham.

Part of the reason I was interested in the Jag V8 was that it's available in the scrapyard, but the main reason I wanted to do it is that it's something a bit different, and a way to 'keep it in the family' so to speak. It's also very compact, being compared to the Rover V8 in terms of size.

I'm leaning more towards a BMW 6 in the Spitfire though, as if the Triumph 6 fits in the GT6, the slightly smaller M54 should too.

I think the Jag-engined Stag is probably the best way to go though, as the AJV8 is heavier than the Triumph 4, throwing the weight distribution out of whack. However, it's about the same as the Triumph V8 (2kg difference) so that should be the same. I won't anger Stag purists by ripping apart an original one though, there's a rolling bodyshell on ebay that should do nicely.

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To David

Hmmm, that might be a bit difficult iif the ECU is integrated with the auto box, and might explain why there aren't any conversion kits out there. Have you got any experience with Megasquirt kits?

I am currently assembling a MS1 V2.2 with the msextra code. It is a slightly start and stop project as I have some back axle issues as well.

There is lots of information about megasquirt on the web and a fair bit on this site.

Your information about the Jag V8 weight relative to the Stag V8 is interesting.

Does an AJV8 have the same bell bolt pattern as a AJ6 and will it take an AJ6 fly wheel? If the answer to those questions is yes you may be onto something.

I've got the AJV8 pegged at 200kg and the Stag V8 at 202kg, although I'm not sure whether they were both fully dressed or not. It's a bugger to find good engine weight information on the internet.

That's an interesting idea about the AJ6 bolt pattern, I'll have to do some research. I'll have a look and see whether the AJ6 and AJV8 used the same auto transmission. If they did, it's likely they used the same bolt pattern.

Right. Looks like this project will be going ahead in the near future. I've got a temporary graduate job right after I finish university so I'll have some cash to burn.

I've found two Stag bodyshells for sale on ebay. One's a slightly ratty one. Seems to only have surface rust, other than that it's clean. That's for £995.

[www.ebay.co.uk]

There's another for £1200 that looks immaculate. Which one's the best shot? I think £200 is well worth it for the amount of work I'd need to do prepping the ratty one.

[www.ebay.co.uk]

Hi Simon,

I have not got a lot of experience with Stags, other than what I have read and looked at on line, but I have got experience of repairing Triumph bodyshells.
I would go with the more expensive one, there is a hell of a lot less work to be done. Cutting out and repairing rust is no ones idea of fun, with the second one you could get straight on with the modifications.

Graham

That sounds like good advice. I've done enough rust repair to know it's a pain, lets just hope it's not sold by the time I have the funds.