Triumph Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" V8s (Stag and TR8)

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ghornbostel
Greg Hornbostel
Nebraska
(72 posts)

Registered:
09/02/2013 01:41PM

Main British Car:
1957 TR3 Buick 231 evenfire V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: ghornbostel
Date: February 15, 2015 04:59PM

tr3 engine 022.jpg
Richard, this may or may not help. When I put the weber carbs on my Buick V6/TR3, the hood wouldn't close by about 2 inches. I dropped everything down in the chassis and then found that the filter wouldn't go on because it interfered with the frame and steering. My solution to the problem is in the bypass and if you zoom in on that area of the engine you will see that I used a piece of cast iron and made the disk that threads onto the bypass. I installed a gasket and located the area that I could use several cast iron pipe fittings that are brazed to the cast iron disk. It interfers with the frame when you try to screw it on or off so it has to be installed before the engine goes into the car. Sorry but I don't have a photo of it in the engine compartment
Regards
Greg Hornbostel


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: March 03, 2015 01:31AM

Appears very similar to the commercial unit I have.

Steering rack placement is being an issue.
Pulleys clearance too.

Have had to set this project aside for a while.
Concentrating on the Alfa Romeo Spider and El Camino for now.
Need more space and completing one of those is the best way to get it.

Wish I had your intake, would be worth a scoop in the bonnet.
But even if a manifold were availablde the carbs are now crazy priced.


ghornbostel
Greg Hornbostel
Nebraska
(72 posts)

Registered:
09/02/2013 01:41PM

Main British Car:
1957 TR3 Buick 231 evenfire V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: ghornbostel
Date: March 05, 2015 12:30AM

It is similar but the pipe fittings are angled toward the center of the crank. At the time I bought that manifold I was looking at a 166 ci stage 2 Buick midget engine with mag dry sump, individual port fuel injection and all the pipes and drives for a little more than what I payed for the manifold and carbs. It had 12:1 cr and a magneto and I thought that it would be a beast as its a little hard to find over 100 octane gas around here. The 231 has 10:1 cr and runs fine on 92 octane. I talked to Jim Inglese after I bought the manifold to find out if he had records of jetting for the setup. He said that he didn't and that there were less than 25 manifolds manufactured. I see a set of 3c IDAs bring more than I payed for the whole setup which was manifold, carbs, fuel lines and linkage. The sound that motor makes is different from a normal carburated Buick and boy does it perform and it gets 24 mpg to boot. We are coming out of this cold spell and 60 degree days are forcast for next week. Don't have to tell you where I'll be.

Greg


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: March 16, 2015 03:19AM

What happened to the manifold patterns?

Could maybe replace the 3V Webers with F.I. bodies.
I have CNC machines, could even make them if I had to.


ghornbostel
Greg Hornbostel
Nebraska
(72 posts)

Registered:
09/02/2013 01:41PM

Main British Car:
1957 TR3 Buick 231 evenfire V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: ghornbostel
Date: March 21, 2015 07:27PM

You will have to ask Jim Inglese about the patterns and core boxes. It is a pretty narrow market to say the least. PMO also sells a direct port injection for the 911 based off the 3c IDA. I have CNC equipment too and a aluminum foundry to go along with it but its a pretty high price to pay for one manifold.
Greg


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: March 30, 2015 03:50AM

I played with some of the manifolds I have, not enough area on top for three IDF's or IDA's.
Might be simpler if I had a manifold without an integral thermostat housing to start with.

Fabricated manifold might do it but are a LOT of work.
Twin DCOE's cross-ram might be a little simpler but still not IR so would it really gain over a standard Holley beyond tuneability?

Two IDF/IDA can certainly be done but not sure how well they would work with the V6 port arrangement.
Would basically be just an expensive 4V with vastly improved tuning ability.

I have a hazy memory of a three barrel holley, might just look that up for study but it's probably crazy rare and expensive too.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: August 26, 2015 02:40AM

I love the summer weather but not what it does to income.

Changing my product lineup to get more free time.

For now I will be doing some measurements on the Trick-6 diff parts in an effort to make drawings for the rear suspension.



Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 01, 2015 02:24AM

To update this thread.
Tired of doing nothing but WORK, so took an hour to get some measurements.

I have a complete Merkur rear end.
Also found some pics of a very nice Merkur to GT-6 conversion on another site, but no measurements.
I think I may be able to incorporate the original diff mount center section into my design.
Would save some fabrication time.

These measurement should be close but were done with a ruler and square.
I found the Merkur diff to be just under 12.0" wide one axle flange to the other.
Need to learn how to measure the pivot point for CV axles so that I will be able to model suspension.
Center-line to drivers side is 6.80" and passenger side 5.13"
Original axles are different lengths, not sure if that's really an issue as I do not want to off-set the diff mounting.
Aluminum case and fairly light.
About 10.75" from input flange to output centerline.
I do intend to use the Merk hubs as they are a simple bolt-on design and the correct PCD for my wheels.

The GT-6 track is 49.0"
Enkie wheels I have are 6" X 14" with 4.00 back space.

Had hoped to be able to get some preliminary numbers for the rear suspension from this but could not figure out how to change the track width in VSusp.

Did find GT-6+ chassis drawings in my workshop manual.

This is not expected to be a simple conversion.
I already know I have to cut away part of the original frame but it's just a body mount that has to be modified to let the diff sit far enough back.

I've seen mention of several suspension software programs on the web, I now have a PC I can load them on.
Have decided that I need to figure out the rear suspension before moving on to anything else.
The rest of the car should be comparatively simple.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1894 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: mgb260
Date: September 02, 2015 03:46PM

Daze has a nice IRS forum:

[irsforum.boardhost.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2015 03:48PM by mgb260.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 14, 2015 12:16AM

Had not planned to do so but put a few hours into fitting the engine and trans today.

Finally have them sitting just about as perfectly as possible.
Cannot get any lower even if I had a dry sump system, bottom of the pan is even with the bottom of the frame.
Engine is dead level with the frame, I may want to raise the front just a fraction.
Front of the crank damper is just about flush with the forward edge of the front cross-member.
If I cannot get the bonnet to fit without cutting now, it cannot be done using a Buick V6 engine without a full custom frame.
It's clear now that the "Easy" conversion would be a Capri V6 and T9 box.

Aghast at how much of the frame channel I've had to remove for this big fat T5 and the V6 starter.
Going to have to get very creative to restore the frame strength.
Looking like I will take a page from the old Shelby Mustang, putting a removable brace between the shock towers.
Find this advisable since I've had to remove some of the original gusseting to clear the oil pump.
Also cutting clearance for the front pulley in the forward cross member.

Reversing an aluminum single sheave SBC crank pulley will give me enough room to move the steering rack back 1.00" which seems to be all that should be needed.
Doing that and shortening the rack to fix the backward Ackerman and bump steer.

No room to mount the alternator in a conventional manner so current thinking is to reverse mount it.
Would like to see clearly what was done for BOP conversions.
The water pump drive may become even more bizarre, perhaps utilizing a jack-shaft from the alternator if I cannot make an electric pump fit.
Hoping to use the Rover 4.0 front cover after I get it machined to use a distributor.

Just about ready to actually put the front engine mounts in.
Will be nice to weld parts ON after so much cutting them off.

Still not certain about the front suspension.
I recall reading that some folk have adapted European Ford spindles and arms.
Since I need a 4x108 pcd anyway I will look into that as well.

Once the engine and trans are finalized I can also finalize the mounting of my rear diff.
From there rear suspension mocking up should be much more accurate.

Anyone used a CV joint driveshaft?
Would like for it to remain reasonably light.

Seems my final How in the H*** task will be the exhaust!


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 15, 2015 03:01AM

Think I figured out how to reinforce the frame.

Going to have some rectangular section steel bent to match the chassis shape where it's been cut away.
This will need to be as close to the inside width as possible and half the depth.
That will be welded inside the original chassis, which is even thinner than I had expected despite having no rust.
This restores the frame to a shallower box section.

Then I want to add another bent box section to the inside outside edge, about a third of the original width but flush to the top of the original rails.
That gives me a doubled up box section that will probably be stronger than the original when welded full lenght.
But it still leaves the extra inside width and depth I need.

Now to find a fabricator who can do the bends!

Hope my description makes sense, I have no idea how to attach a drawing even if I had one.

Also looked some more at the alternator mounting issue.
Even reversed getting a belt to clear the water pump is going to be interesting.
I may be back to using a cog belt and a tensioner to push it away from the water pump bolts.
Hoping I can rig an electric water pump.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 20, 2015 03:12AM

Found a company that says they can do the bends so I've traced the frame profile.
Not sure you will be able to see it, but I plan to use two pieces of rectangular box section as sketched in the upper left.
Lower piece is 2.0" wide x 1.5" tall.
Upper is 1.0" wide x 1.5" tall.
Hoping those are readily available sizes.
Should be stonger than the original frame when complete.

The piece of junk diamond plate is leftover from the prior hack job.
I left it in for now as it may help a little to keep the frame from twisting with so much cut away at the top.

DSC01514.jpg

Here is the rough cut frame, this lets the T5 sit low and the engine as far back as reasonable.
DSC01510.jpg

Also took new pics of the front tower mods.
To replace lost strength I plan to add a removeable bar from the top of one tower to the other.

Near side.
DSC01508.jpg

Off side.
DSC01509.jpg


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 20, 2015 03:01PM

Digging into th 'Web I've found a few useful things and a LOT of conflicting opinions.
Hoping my build will help to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

After sifting through it all I've decided to shorten the steering rack.
I have a spare so if it's a mistake I can put a stocker back in.
Rather than cutting the rack and welding it back together I will just cut a piece off the passenger side and rethread the end.
Cut the tube center a matching amount and reweld over a mandrel.
Reassemble and mount the assembly at center.
May have to cut away the lower portion of the drivers turret again to clear the steering shaft.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 26, 2015 01:47AM

Got my 3' tall steel sawhorses finished!
Incredibly more pleasant to work on the chassis at a reasonable height.

Got the steering rack measured verse the A arm inside pivot points.
Looks like I should take out 3".
Also looks like I will have to cut away the inside of the other Tower to clear the steering shaft after the rack is remounted.

Yanked the front suspension, had to cut one seized A arm bolt.
Once all the mods are figured out on the towers I will take them off for easier welding.

Got my mini-starter so I can see how well that clears the frame.
Now have to decide which engine I am putting in and buy a flywheel, one of the more significant expenses.
Starter seems to have two mounting positions for different diameter flywheels.
It is nice that I am able to rotate the solenoid to place it closer to the block and away from the likely header heat.

Have to decide, put the 225 back together as I know it runs strong or go with the rebuilt but unknown spec 231?
Different flywheel for each.
Whichever I go with it's getting test run on my stand before it goes into the car.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 26, 2015 05:15PM

Oh - Oh, went looking for a deal on a flywheel and ended up buy one of the rare Inglese Weber intakes!
Probably not my smartest move as it just made the build a LOT more expensive or complex.
Now I either have to find a set of overpriced 3V Weber carbs or make my own F.I. bodies.

I will probably just go with the old 4V setup initially and put this together later on the other engine.
Not even sure which it is intended to fit, even fire or odd.

Now more motivated than before to see about converting Rover V8 heads to fit the V6.
I know TA Performance sell alloy heads but the price is just too high for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 10:34PM by Richard/SIA.



mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1894 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: mgb260
Date: September 26, 2015 09:06PM

Richard, Look on Ebay for Triumph 3 cylinder throttle bodies.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 26, 2015 10:41PM

MC Throttle bodies, hmmm, but will the bore spacing work?

I've found the Porsche carbs at varied prices, all high but some much better than others.
Also found F.I. replacement bodies to fit for only a little more than the carbs, plus the cost of the EFI controller and plumbing.

Going to have to concentrate on fitting what I have for now, this manifold was more expense than I had budgeted for right now.
Unless I find a cheap way out this intake system will cost as much as I have into the entire rest of the car and all mods to date!


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1894 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: mgb260
Date: September 27, 2015 11:40AM

Individual mounts with adapter.
triumph tb.jpg
triumph tb 2.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 11:45AM by mgb260.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(346 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225" Buick V6

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: September 28, 2015 02:53AM

Individual mounts, from?

Supposed to be a budget build but it's getting out of control.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(1894 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.
Posted by: mgb260
Date: September 28, 2015 03:38AM

Richard, each throttle body has it's own 2 bolt mount. I would use separate Weber to that pattern adapters instead of long aluminum plates like in the pictures.
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