Triumph Sports Cars

engine swaps and other performance upgrades, plus "factory" V8s (Stag and TR8)

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Fitz0145
Kyle Fitzgerald

(3 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2014 09:04PM

Main British Car:


Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Fitz0145
Date: January 19, 2014 09:34PM

hello everyone, so Im new to this forum but am very excited to get started working on my 1970 gt6+ i just need some advice first. When i first bought the car i was just dedicated to get her back on the road and drive this summer but after removing the motor and going taking apart the car i have noticed a lot more wiring then im comfortable with. My plan was to drop a bigger motor in in a few years but i figure why spend the money getting the stock motor up and running if im just going to ditch it in a few years. anyways so my questions are:

1) im looking at putting a small block ford, prob the 302. this motor was recommended to me from a buddy who has it in is mustang and she runs greats. as weird as this sounds im hoping to make a "sleeper" gt6... yes i know haha but by saying that i just mean i want the outside of the car to look like it did in the 70's no hood scopes or massive wheel fenders. maybe slight arcs would be fine but only where triumph enthusiasts would be able to tell the difference and to anyone else would look stock. the reason why i find this to be a good option is because two people on this forum have already done this (http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/MattKline.htm) (http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/DeryleWilliams.htm) and they look amazing. also where i live the price of a new stock wiring harness just for the gt6 would be the same as buying a ford 302 with new tranny and all the wiring. the only problem i have ran into so far is that its a carb motor not efi which sticks out the top of the motor alot. as u notice in Matt Kline's gt6 its efi with a custom air intake. to keep the height down. would it be possible to convert a carb 302 to a efi and make a low profile air intake? or would it just be better to buy a efi 302 from factory?

2) im not looking at getting a insane amount of horse power out of the motor just yet. i just want to get on the road asap and get around town to car meets and what not. in a few years once i have time and a full time job i plan on doing a full restoration/hot rod build... im currently a full time student in my second year of post secondary so im trying to keep this on a buget. so my question is will the stock rear dif work? or would i just be insane for trying.

sorry about the long first post but i hope to hear from everyone soon and hopefully ill be able to help out while im here :)

[www.facebook.com] <--- my gt6 fb album


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(387 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225&amp;amp;quot; Buick V6

Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: January 19, 2014 10:23PM

Remaining stock would certainly be less expensive and easier than a complex conversion.

Wiring repair is actually fairly simple, take it one circuit at a time.
Creating a new harness may be much more difficult.
Factory F.I. can be utterly frustrating since it's hard to see problems in electrical components.

An iron 302 is fairly heavy and also requires a different rear axle setup for the increased torque.

My own conversion is being done to a GT6 that has already been cut up with the original drive-train long gone.
I'm using a Buick V6 mostly because I already have several and it keeps the badging correct.

If it's just more power and WOW you want in a sleeper consider putting a turbo or blower on the original six.
A cam change, headers and Webers or Weber style throttle body F.I. might surprise you.
Megasquirt F.I. is fairly easy to work with, even with forced induction.

Where are you located?


Fitz0145
Kyle Fitzgerald

(3 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2014 09:04PM

Main British Car:


Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Fitz0145
Date: January 19, 2014 10:47PM

someone had tried to do the wiring repair on this car already so all the wiring is all messy and way to much to work with... my plan was to buy a full wiring harness from Victoria British to keep it simple. my break down of prices right now are

1) motor rebuilt - 300
new wiring harness - 400
tranny?- unknown condition

2) 302 with trans and wiring -500

my third option was to buy a second car with a new motor a new trans and any part that i could need for around 600-1000

ive checked out a couple V6 options but they seem to be a little bit to wide compared to the 302... and i figured if im going to drop a new motor in it i may as well go big.

and im located in Ottawa, Canada


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(387 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225&amp;amp;quot; Buick V6

Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: January 20, 2014 12:03AM

"2) 302 with trans and wiring -500"

Figure some more to get that wiring integrated to your switches and gauges, or to replace switches and gauges.
Modern gauges tend to be on circuit boards and are not so easily moved to another dash.
You did not say which wiring is fouled up, the entire harness, engine compartment, under dash?
One circuit at a time and a wiring diagram can save a LOT of $$$.
GT6 wiring is very simple compared to modern cars.

Not to discourage, but I got my car very cheap when the guy that had it gave up on it.

Buick V6 is identical in width and height to the Aluminum V8 BOPR but several inches shorter.
The BOPR engine seems to be one of the most popular conversions here in part due to the light weight.

302 Ford is probably going to require some frame reinforcement too.
What do you plan for your rear axle?

If I did not already have the Buick engines I might look at the F.I. Turbo V6 and T5 from a Camaro.

I may be interested in buying some of your take-off parts if price and shipping cost make sense for me.
GT-6 rear is weak for any major HP increase.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2014 12:11AM by Richard/SIA.


Fitz0145
Kyle Fitzgerald

(3 posts)

Registered:
01/19/2014 09:04PM

Main British Car:


Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Fitz0145
Date: January 20, 2014 08:49AM

Ya i understand there may be a little bit more expense in getting the dash done but im still weighting the options of having to put money into the stock motor just to right it off in a few years. thats my biggest hump im trying to get over. sorry if i sound like im arguing with you your advice is very helpful and making me think about a lot im just being devils advocate i guess.

and all the wiring... under the dash is just a mess of old wires and new wires. nothing seemed to work when i put a battery in. in the engine compartment is the same way. wires just running across stuff and a huge mess or new and old.

for the rear axle i was going to just leave the stock one but as u say that wont work so now im thinking hit up the junk yard and pull out a rear axle assemble or if i get that second car i could use the rear out of that.

all these motors look great but the cost of them is a little bit expensive compared to the ford.

my plan now is to get someone to check out the motor and get someone to check out the trans and if they say they r in working order then i may stick with them... but if they r bad then the it may be more of a headache to fix them compared to an engine swap.


Richard/SIA
Richard Brengman
No. Nevada
(387 posts)

Registered:
01/17/2014 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1969 Triumph GT6+ 225&amp;amp;quot; Buick V6

Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: Richard/SIA
Date: January 20, 2014 01:25PM

Since you want to look stock from the outside the rear suspension may be more difficult than the engine.

GT-6's are narrow compared to almost any car made in the last twenty years.
You have IRS now, a live axle conversion is simpler but loses a primary feature of the GT6.
I have the same issue to deal with, I am looking at a BMW IRS rear and will probably still have to narrow it.
At only about 200+ HP I MAY be able to use a Miata rear despite my distaste for Japanese components in an English car.
I am still searching this forum for data, this has all been done before and I am on a limited budget so do not want to do anything twice.

I am closing in on doing my first F.I. conversion to a Chevy.
I will post my progress and real world results which should be applicable to other engines such as GT6.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6002 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 23, 2014 07:50PM

A GT6 comes in around 1800 lbs more or less depending on year and equipment, pretty much the same as a later Spitfire. At that weight, if your goal was to match the 2014 Mustang with 420 Hp you need 212 Hp in the GT6. Think about that for just a bit. Both vehicles would then have an 8.5 to 1 weight to horsepower ratio. (The Mustang is a hefty 3600+ lbs) With 250 hp (7.2 ratio) you would blow the doors off a stock Mustang so bad it wouldn't even be close. And you can build a 250 hp GT6 pretty easily without having to worry about too many reinforcements.

There are a great many ways to get to 250 hp, so consider a few of them. The ubiquitous Chevy V6-60 is a decent choice for many reasons. I don't frequently suggest it because I mostly hang out with the MG crowd and it's a heavier car but with 500 lbs less weight it makes a lot of sense. The 3.4 is a *very* good engine and will handily meet your needs, they are extremely common and inexpensive, seem to be quite reliable, and just as important, are very compact. You would have to look at engine height and hood clearance of course since the narrow bank angle makes it a little taller than it otherwise might be, but it is available with aluminum heads and would likely mean a slight weight reduction. The narrow short package would make it an easy fit.

The Buick V6 might be another good choice. Wider but less tall possibly. A little heavier. Up to 4.1L and capable of putting out 275 Hp in streetable trim without much fuss. Even a RX7 rotary would be a pretty decent option.

The BOPR aluminum V8 from 215/3.5L up to 4.6L and over will drop weight of the front end and get you up to 300 Hp without much trouble.

Then you get into your iron block SBF and SBB engines which honestly, are probably too much for a GT6 without serious secondary modifications. At 300 hp you are at a 6:1 weight to power ratio which is dragster territory, so unless you are into serious stoplight racing or Saturday nights at the strip it's a lot of work for very little reward.

Jim



danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(577 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: Gt6+ start of project help
Posted by: danmas
Date: January 23, 2014 07:59PM

FWIW: A Ford 302 with aluminum heads and intake weighs 35 pounds LESS than the GT6 engine.


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