Triumph Sports Cars

Raised the tunnel cover up to the E-brake holes or where the original cardboard sucure tab was on top. Took the tunnel cover and bent wider before welding back in for drive shaft clearance.




Rasied the tunnel cover 2" total. I noticed that the factory brazed this tunnel section in (3 places you can see in this photo) and then smeared some kind of tar to seal the area. They used this tar on the whole body. The tar on this body still is soft at all the joints even with the age of this body. I will need to move the E-brake handle mount back some.


Moved the original firewall back to clear the transmission.



Photo from the engine compartment side. I will need to put all the sheet metal back in that I cut out. I will make as much room for my feet as possible, but also be able to change the spark plug from the engine compartment side. The spark plug does angle towards the front of the car which helps with the stock heads. The battery will be moved to the trunk. With the firewall this far back, I'm able to intall the engine and transmission bolted together and install at the same time.





Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2008 09:44PM by 74ls1tr6.

I have a 24"x19" X3" Griffin crossflow radiator with 1.25 dual row cooling tubes that I will be using. I will need to modify the original radiator/body mounts to fit it in. The rad cap is still to close to hood no mater how I set it in the space. I don't want to modify the hood if I can help it.

I noticed Ken Schmidt used an inline fill cap (in top rad hose) for his radiator. That would have been nice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 01:34AM by 74ls1tr6.

Calvin, check your height of radiator fluid level in reference to the coolant passages in your heads. If it's close you'll want a surge tank to make sure the fluid level is always above the heads. It can be on the firewall.

Jim

Jim, did some photo taking and some measurments on your knowledge that the coolant needs to be above the head passages. I think the coolant level is above the heads by about at least 2 3/4 " + or - 1/4".

This photo shows where 19" goes up to from the frame box top.



This photo shows from the frame box up 191/4" to 191/2 where coolant level should be around.



This photo shows that the rad is 1" above frame box ( rad is sitting on front skid plate in front of the original rad/body mount box).
I could probably redo the skid plate and get 1" inch lower and just leave the rad here, use the original rad mount with a L bracket to hold rad secure.



I could just cut a nice square hole out of the hood bracing for the rad cap clearance which I have seen before on another TR6.
From top of skid plate to the hood is 19" with the hood closed, the rad is 20" from bottom rad to top of rad cap.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 01:40AM by 74ls1tr6.

There is about 1 1/4" to be had here for rad cap clearance. I didn't want to do this but it looks about the best way for not fabing to much.





Thank you Jim B for keeping me in check with this project. I wouldn't want a aluminum head and block engine cooling system not work correctly.




The rotating water pump cover I had before that was 45 degrees was so close to the cross brace + it was pointing up over the cross brace. I'm going the use the original water pump thermostat housing, just turned CCW 90 degrees down. I will make little clamps out of aluminum to hold the cover on. It seals with an O-ring to the pump surface. The rad hose will now go from water pump between the cross brace and the steering rack to the rad. A much better fit this way. It will be easy to find a rad hose at just about any auto parts store.



I will need to find a good puller fan for this rad 17" or 18".

Calvin, I'm not familiar with that engine so take what I say with a grain of salt, but it's possible for a return hose routed that way to create a vapor trap and create air pockets in the engine. To avoid this you could run an air bleed line. It is best to run it from the highest point of the engine water passages directly to the highest point in the coolant system, either the suction side of a cross flow radiator or a surge tank and avoid any dips in the line if possible. 1/4 to 3/8" line should be fine. From what I can see of the engine it looks like the thermostat housing may be below the head's water jackets so the engine may have been designed to use bleeds anyway. You want to avoid steam pockets at all costs.

I think you are building an excellent conversion and I'd like to congratulate you on your willingness to go outside the norms and build a truly unique car. You can expect to find me in the crowd of expectant onlookers once you get it finished.

Jim

Thanks Jim for your support ;-) It's well noted.


This photo shows the thermostat housing inlet to pump and outlet from rad. It should be an easy line for the rad hose to travel, shouldn't have any dip in hose here with the right lenght of hose installed.



Photo shows the outlet hose from pump and inlet connection on rad. The original Ls1 Camaro rad has 1 1/4" hose connection both inlet and outlet. The Griffin rad has inlet 1 1/2' and outlet 1 3/4' connections. I will need to have some kind of adapter for that solution. Ls1 tech site talk's about this in the hybrid forum for swaping engines with this same issue.



This is the hose that comes from the throtle body so the the water heats up the air when cold start up (I may bypass this and go straight to tee and get a little better performance). This is the bleed line that Jim B is talking about. My question would be, I need to take this rad to a rad shop and have a barbed fitting installed at what level on the rad? I was thinking just below the overflow fitting on the side tank just like the Camaro rad is setup (the hose is just on the overflow to show the hose). Where the hose is connected to the throtle body, the hose then come's out and goes to a tee, splits and goes to each top of head jacket.

So Jim B is right about the bleed setup.




The hose on the pump outlet, just above is the bleed line at the throtle body connection. You can also see the steel tube going to the head connection. This would be the passanger side of the engine.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 03:03PM by 74ls1tr6.

Here is the driver side photo that show's the tee and head connection. I will take the hose going into throtle body off and install onto the tee for the bypass. I can always put it back, if driving in cold weather.

Photo show's both rads together to show inlets and outlets. The inlet on the Griffin rad is higher than the Camaro rad. The outlet on the Griffin rad is lower than the Camaro rad. It does cross flow from left to right through the core tube's on both rad's



The lower fitting tube on the Camaro rad is what I need to have the Griffin rad to have installed. I don't want to attempt this myself and mess up the griffin tank. I think I will ask if they can install a drain bung in also.


I don't think I will have problems with overheating with this Griffin rad. It was rated at 600hp. There is room for engine mods later.



Finished welding for the fuel cell. Need to do the final clean up later. In the bag I have 4 of these foam for fuel cell's to help with the sloshing issue with hard cornering (Don would say spirited driving :-)...). I will need to cut them and install so that the bottom of the fuel cell will have foam at 6" high, making room for the fuel pick up tube. This means I can do some spirited driving and still have gas being pumped to the engine.

So I guess the thermostat must be on the pump inlet. Sort of an odd arrangement, but I'm guessing, with the smaller diameter lines it's a higher velocity/pressure system with some alternate means of heating the thermostat. I wouldn't care to even speculate on what that does to temps at various points in the system, but it might be a good idea to get one of those $40 HF infrared temp sensors and check everything out when you fire it up. There's got to be some mechanism for opening the thermostat when you demand maximum power, other than waiting for the cool radiator water to do it.

It looks like your radiator is plumbed for an overflow bottle but not for a vent line. You could have one added at the top of the suction (pump supply) side like the Camaro tank but as long as your coolant return line runs uphill all the way from the top of the engine to the radiator tank *AND* the existing vent lines are not located above the coolant return on the engine it should be fine. If the vent locations are higher then you really should plumb them in somehow with an uphill run. It would be possible to locate that return on the return tank, but keep in mind that there is a significant pressure differential across the radiator and plan accordingly. Size and routing becomes more critical.

Jim

Hmm! I wonder if I'm wrong about the direction of flow through the cooling system? I will ask someone in the morning to find out for sure.

Remember 1992, when Chevy raved about the Gen II’s reverse-flow cooling? Well, reverse is, apparently, out. The new engine uses conventional pushrod V8 cooling. Coolant is pumped into the block, around the cylinders, up into the heads, then out to the radiator. The reason Gen II went reverse was that, to make the power Corvette Development wanted; it had to have a higher compression ratio (LT1, 10.2:1; LT4, 10.8:1). Higher compression made for detonation. The cooling system was revised to run the cylinder heads cooler as an antidetonant strategy, and to run the cylinder bores hotter for higher oil temperature and less friction. Clearly, reverse-flow cooling, the publicity darling of the Gen II engine, was really nothing more than a fix that allowed the limited cooling of the old Small-Block head to work with the higher compression necessary to reach the 300 horsepower level.

Air in the cooling system becomes problematic if it gets into the water passages surrounding the combustion chambers. This often causes localized boiling and that, in turn, allows hot spots to develop on chamber walls and they cause detonation. The problem with reverse flow is that with coolant flowing downward and air bubbles flowing upward; keeping air out of the Gen II cooling system was difficult.

Though the LS1 has a lower static compression ratio; its cylinder heads have improved combustion chamber design and intake ports that breathe better. Those features allow them to make more power. The clean-sheet-of-paper approach also allowed design of the cooling passages around the chambers to be more efficient such that the engine can put out more power than the Gen II but yet have coolant flow in the conventional direction to eliminate problems with aeration. With a better combustion chamber and water jacket design and improved antifriction technology in the block, pistons and rings; it made sense to go back to the normal-flow cooling system.

Like most engines of the last 20 years or so, the LS1 uses a 195 degree thermostat. Nominal coolant temperatures are similar to what we see in LT1/4 engines. The new engine will use "Dex-Cool" coolant introduced last year in many GM vehicles. Dex-Cool has entirely new anticorrosive chemistry that is longer lasting and more friendly to cooling system parts, especially seals

My question is answered here?

I would tend to agree with.....$40 HF infrared temp sensors and check everything out when you fire it up.

Calvin

So this is a conventional flow system then? I still wonder what's going on with that thermostat but I'm sure it's explained in detail somewhere. Be a good idea to find that explanation I suppose. Kinda hard to design a proper cooling system with unanswered questions. My biggest question would be, how does it get warmed up?

Jim

Ah Yes, Spirited Driving, responsibly!

Calvin, you really are going to be the talk of the town when she is built. ( If you are not already from all the mess, noise, and driveway clutter)


Based on the pic, I assume that you are not going to be able to keep the stock filler neck?

What are your plans for your few gas stops? Are you keeping the stock cap for looks or are you thinking something else?

I wonder if you could relocate it to the right, above the new tank inlet?

Jim or ls1 onlooker knowledge.
Found this in LS1tech forum achive,

Question from a member:
i noticed an ls1 camaro in a salvage yard that had the radiator hose from the water pump outlet (thermostat end) routed to the lower passenger side of the radiator and the other to the top drivers side. I routed mine just the opposite, like any tbi truck would be. Is this going to give me problems, i cant see how the other would work properly if coolant was not completely full all of the time. i am using my stock radiator in an 89 s-10. any help is appreciated.

Response from member:
You have it wrong and need to change it. People make the mistake assuming the thermostat housing is the outlet. It is NOT! The thermostat housing on all LS1 type engines (and all LT1's for that matter) is the INLET from the radiator. The hose nipple sticking straight out the front of the water pump is the outlet (return). This is where the upper radiator hose belongs.

Question member:
wouldn't the thermostat see cool water from the radiator all the time then, Im not saying you are wrong, Im just curious how it works. It seems like the thermostat would never close. I just figured that the outlet was the thermosat and gm just returned it to the bottom of the radiator, which seems fine if it never gets low on pressure. Please fill me in on this.

Response member:
I don't know why you think the thermostat would never close. It's normally closed and the engine internally circulates the water that's in the block until it gets hot. That's the water that is exposed to the themostat element. It gets hot, the thermostat opens a little and lets some cool water in. That cycle repeats until everything warms up and the thermostat stays open far enough to keep engine temperature regulated to around 195.
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I went to the auto store today and was asking to see all the veiws of the LS1 water pump on their computer screen.

I noticed the back of the pump there is 4 holes that face the block. The 2 on the bottom of the pump go to each left/right sides into the block the 2 on the top are returns from the (both sides) block. So it does circulate from the pump then will introduce cool water as the thermostat opens.

So the coolant tubes on each head on top that goes into the tee...then into throtle body...then into suction side of rad is for romoving any air or purge air.

Don, "Yes" I have been asking that same question to myself and have been dreaming of ways of what to do with the gas fill.
I would like to keep the original gas fill cap ( I like the looks and how it works), but don't want to relocate it either. I do have a 45 degree off the tank that is facing the fuel cap. I would need to take the original fuel cap and make a 45 degree angle towards the fuel tank fill. The cap is pot aluminum, I will go to the local metal shop where I have been picking up the metal's at low cost and see if I can match up something and weld it on.

I know it will make for slow filling but this is good. The slower you pump gas into your fuel cell here in CA, the pumps at the gas stations have a suction( vapor return suction) return. So the faster you fill your tank the less fuel you will get. Also put gas in your car in the morning when the fuel is cool, when warm it expands you will get less fuel.

I could relocate it over the fuel cell fill, but I don't think that would look right, maybe last resort option. There are some 90 * and 45* gas hose's out on the market that I might try. It is tight there tho, but I'm finding that everything is tight on this project hehe.

Driving to work today I filled up with gas at 4.01 a gallon. When I dove home today it was 4.10 a gallon. I'm hoping to drive by some of those gas stations and go east to fill with cheaper gas. No I just don't want to fill up as often.

A trailer is looking like a REALITY for all of us to haul our stuff to the meets.

Found some solutions to the build. Fuel cell area, radiator installment and sway bar vertical link offset in front.

I found these gas filler hoses. The top hose is 2" ID that will fit on the TR6 filler cap and the bottom hose is 1 3/4 " ID to fit the fuel cell filler neck. They both had 7" from 90* on both sides. These were cut down and install with a 1 3/4 ID pipe nipple to connect them together. If there is a problem with connection because of the 1/4" difference, I will weld on a bead to one side of the nipple, will make a better fit for clamping. In the end results there is a small S in the filler hose which I believe won't cause any problems with gas fill. I just need to install 4 suretite hose clams on.




I turned the fuel cell around 180* from the first photo's so that the AN fittings would fit.The fuel cell has 8AN male, needed to reduce down to AN 6 for 3/8" braded fuel hose for both pump and return sides. The 85 micron fuel filter will go in before the fuel line goes through the body under the car to protect the fuel pump. The inline fuel pump will go on the frame below the fuel cell connecting to the 3/8' SS fuel line. In the engine compartment is where the inline 10 micron fuel filter will be installed to protect the fuel injectors. The return line will just return fuel not used.




It will work. I'm glad because I like the original TR6 fuel fill cap and didn't want to change this.




This photo was taken from the passanger compartment looking back into fuel cell area.



This connect with the Earl's hose is the rollover vent. The hose will go out under the car and clamped.

I put this photo in just to show that the fuel cell is level set in the body. I will run a 2 aluminum straps front and back width wise to hold fuel cell in. I don't think a donut spare tire will fit under the fuel cell. I traded a spare for more fuel.



The bolt that is protruding through the skid plate (front swaybar area), has been moved forward from the original bolt hole on the left.. On the TR6 frame there is four holes upper and lower on the front of the frame. I will weld on the difference of metal that is not there to have all four holes using bolts instead of 2 only (original setup stock was only 2 bolts on each side). I will pivot skid plate down in front about 1/4" , to allow for brackets to hold rad in place.



By moving the skid plate forward about 1 1/4" solved 2 issues for me. (1) The vertical swaybar link is straight down now instead of up against the bottom suspension plate. When the suspension depressed it would bind (caused from moving swaybar on the top side of skid plate, moved swaybar back some). (2) With the skid plate moved forward, it freed up just enough room for the radiator cap to clear the hood.

"Very happy" about not cutting a hole in the hood for rad cap.



With the rad leaning forward a little, the rad cap has plenty of room now. Photo was taken in front of car looking into rad with the hood closed..

This photo shows the skid plate now in front of the body about 1 1/4". I'm not concerned about how this looks because with the front spoiler attached, this will not be seen.



Found a 16" pusher/puller universal fan that has the shroud molded in. Will move about 2250 CF of air. Should be OK for not over heating with "spirited driving".



Clearance photo with hood closed.



It just proves, almost all the time there is a solution to the problems in making anything fit.

Found this "Aluminum Bling" to put on the firewall pass through for the heater core ( May just install mini Gen II air/heat/defrost unit). Using 8 AN hose fittings to and from.



There is threads all the way through this aluminum block.








"Cheers"

Congrats on working out the gas filler and radiator position.

She is coming along quite nice!

Speaking of Spirited Driving, our local club ,www.wptriumph.org , had a run this past saturday. About 350 miles, back roads, hills, and then wine and diner.

I had a Corona!



I was the last to leave the lot after diner as we had to buy some WINE!