Triumph Sports Cars

It's Dan B's fault. He's been sending me these ads for months now. Well, E's got a birthday coming up and what does Dan do but find a nice TR7/auto/Buick V6 conversion with air and send it to me. So I figured what the heck, if I sold the dozer that'd pay for it. Of course only a third of it's mine so I divided what I figure I could get for it by 3 and that was my bid. And wouldn't you know, it carried the day. So I guess nothing will do but I'll have to sell the dozer now. And make a trip north of Chicago. It's not officially mine since it's E's birthday present, but I guess you could say we've got one in the stable now. At least it has a Buick engine. (But her birthday isn't until the 12th so don't any of y'all give it away.) Now how am I going to get it back down here without letting the cat out of the bag?

Jim

Sure way to keep her from finding out, posting it on the internet. But I can't wait to see it and test drive it.

Oh well, I'm busted. She didn't buy the story of Dan buying another TR7 and did the direct confrontation thing. Good thing for me she likes the photos!

Jim

What a day! A trip to Cheeseland with Jim to get his purchase. If it hadn't been for Chicago and all those tolls it wouldn't have been bad. But the car is a diamond in the rough! Jim can fill you in on the details, but I believe he got a great deal.

OK, well it's a John's Cars Buick V6 conversion with the 700r4 automatic, pearlescent white 1980 30th year car with blue crushed velour interior which is quite worn and in need of replacement.There are also some interior panels needed. But basically it's a decent car. No rust anywhere and aside from the 2bbl intake and disconnected AC lines, pretty much a quality job on the conversion. It's fast and seems to handle well. No oil leaks to amount to anything and doesn't burn oil either, but there are a number of items to resolve such as improper caps on the valve covers, lack of a fresh air plenum, and a missing firewall bushing on the steering shaft.

The guy said he'd driven it 4000 miles in the 6 years he'd had it among other comments, and I suspect that his troubles with the car began with a failed coupler hose between the heater core and the heater control valve. Nobody likes to drive a car that leaks antifreeze on your right foot. Replacement of the hose did not cure his woes and it's likely the valve was blamed as the culprit, and since replacement most likely involved R&R of the heater core (an expensive proposition) it was never done. We found a hole in the hose where a screwdriver was used to cram the new piece into position. I believe that problem is now solved. Pretty decent stereo, though it fits badly. Perhaps that can also be improved. Since the AC compressor is capped perhaps a couple of hoses, a drier, and a charge will have that working again as well.

Edith is pretty excited about it, thinks the car pretty despite a bit of overspray and the need to have the paint properly rubbed out and that's really what counts here. The improvements can be made over time. But we are going to try for new carpet and upholstery right away in order to get the interior nice and clean, and perhaps a little exhaust work to tone it down a bit. Then she'll have a car she can enjoy driving. The fact that it's a conversion car is just icing on the cake, and being a Buick 3.8 it's got a pedigree'd engine with a lot of potential. Maybe I can get a few pictures in a day or two.

Jim

Wow! This family is covering all basis...1 4's to V6 to Blown 215 to Blown 340, and club out to a 455. I say melting British with American will live forever.

Now you will have to keep that 7 under lock and key for Dan may want to grab the swap engine ;-)

Congrats for E....Happy B-day!

He was eyeing it pretty close. The John's Cars kit looks to be pretty well done. The mounts are heavier than they have to be but also very stout, the tranny adapter plate which allows the use of a 700r4 with the 3.8 Buick is only 1/8" thick, which is a good thing as it means shorter standoffs on the flex plate (the 2004r is probably a better choice), but I can't help thinking there was a better way of doing the upper radiator hose than to wind it all around the engine compartment.

There is an issue with the air cleaner so if anyone is thinking about this swap be sure you get a 4bbl engine, as the 2bbl version puts the air cleaner too far back.

Jim

> OK, well it's a John's Cars Buick V6 conversion with the 700r4 automatic,
> pearlescent white 1980 30th year car with blue crushed velour interior

Cool. The overdrive transmission is a must with the short gears and
13" rims. Does it have 185 or 205mm wide tires? What sort of rims?
If it has the steel rims, they are prone to rust inside. Enough rust
inside will make it hard to balance. Removing the tires, sanding and
painting will take care of that or just switch to aluminum rims.
I've got a couple sets of spare aluminum rims if you don't already
have them.

> No rust anywhere

Excellent.

> aside from the 2bbl intake

Switch to a 4 barrel intake. The cheapest is the GM intake from
the 4.1L Buick V6. It's a Quadrajet manifold but be aware that
many of the carbs that came on those intakes were computer controlled
Qjets. If you're interested, I have several different Buick V6 intake
manifolds, including the GM intake (spread bore Qjet only), Kenne Bell
(square bore carb only) and Weaind (square or spread bore), along with
carbs to suit.

> It's fast and seems to handle well.

Brakes are often the weak point. There are some inexpensive upgrades,
particularly for someone like yourself with machine tools. Here's
one option:

[web.mac.com] Brakes.html

I've got a set of these hubs if you'd like to size them up sometime.

> lack of a fresh air plenum

That will let hot air from the engine compartment into the passenger
compartment. There's also a rubber seal where the hood release cable
passes through.

> and a missing firewall bushing on the steering shaft.

Ted at TSI (http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/) and Woody at
thewedgeshop.com can set you up with a polyurethane steering shaft
bushing for around $15.

Dan Jones

I've typed in some published Buick V6 data below. Note that Kenne Bell's
HP are estimates from drag strip testing.

Dan Jones

P.S. Here are some HP numbers for various normally aspirated Buick V6
upgrades. I happen to have them handy as I have recently helped a local
Buick V6 TR7 owner with an engine rebuild/upgrade:

Smokey Yunick's 5-step dyno test
4.1L Buick V6 with stock 4 barrel intake and Qjet carb 152 HP
Weiand intake manifold and Holley 600 CFM carb 170 HP
Weiand headers 175 HP
Crane H-214/2867-12 cam 202 HP
Bowl port heads 230 HP

Kenne Bell Level 1 Package
HP HP
Total Inc
125 Factory HP 231 V6
150 25 KB Number intake manifold
160 10 Holley 390 CFM carb
182 22 KB Mark 1 (dual pattern) cam kit
194 12 9.25:1 compression pistons
197 3 KB windage tray
200 3 KB oil pan
210 10 Mark 2 cam

Kenne Bell Level 2 package
240 30 KB ported heads
245 5 KB needle bearing roller rockers
250 5 headers

Kenne Bell drag testing (note: the below has some tests from 1977 Skyhawk mixed
in with 1979 Skyhawk tests).
Test MPH ET HP
1 74.1 16.60 95 1979 Skyhawk w/KB oil pump kit and grooved main bearings,
7" slicks, stock gears, 2850lbs, 3050 lbs w/driver
2 75.0 16.50 100 KB flex fan and fan spacer kit
3 76.0 16.40 104 KB advance curve kit
4 76.5 16.10 104 4.10 gears with KB ring spacer
5 77.6 16.00 109 replace catalytic converter and muffler with KB parts
6 77.9 15.98 111 conventional 1 1/2" 3 tube headers
7 78.6 15.90 114 conventional 1 5/8" 3 tube headers
8 80.1 15.73 123 KB81031 1 5/8" 3-in-1 headers
9 83.3 15.34 137 KB Mark 1L cam kit (recommend KB roller timing chain,
cam gasket kit and front cover seal)
10 84.3 15.23 142 KB Mark 1X cam kit (cut guides and install KB seals with
0.060" retainer clearance)
11 86.0 15.12 152 KB Mark 2X cam kit
12 no change Rhoads lifters

Note: Cam and headers were tested with stock 2 barrel carb and intake. Had the
4 barrel carb and intake been tested first, increases would likely have been
larger.

13 87.1 15.01 157 KB19904 oil pan, KB19801 windage tray
14 88.0 14.91 163 KB crank, water pump and alternator pulleys
15 90.2 14.70 174 KB Number 1 intake manifold with stock 2 barrel carb
16 92.5 14.56 187 KB Number 1 intake manifold with KB jetted 500 CFM Carter
17 93.0 14.50 190 KB Number 1 intake manifold with KB jetted 625 CFM Carter
18 92.0 14.60 184 KB Number 1 intake manifold with KB jetted 400 CFM Carter
19 91.0 14.70 178 Heat KB intake runners to same temperature as conventiona
l
manifold.
20 92.0 14.60 184 Cool runners
21 92.0 14.70 184 KB Number 1 intake manifold and KB jetted Holley 390 carb
(recommend KB EGR block off plate, heat isolator gasket)
22 93.3 14.55 195 KB blocked off heat riser (gasket or plates)
23 92.0 14.70 184 install stock air cleaner
24 93.3 14.55 195 KB46007F polyester max-flo low profile air cleaner

XX 94.1 14.41 196 Ram air (4" hose through headlight or hood scoop/cowl)
Note this test had 400 CFM Carter and did not have
blocked off heat risers
25 94.8 14.39 207 KB61003S budget forged pistons 10.2:1 compression ratio
26 94.8 14.39 207 KB50004 7000 RPM cast pistons 10.2:1 compression ratio
27 94.8 14.39 207 KB60003 Superlite forged pistons compression ratio
28 89.8 15.14 168 change to Edelbrock #5486 dual plane intake
(same 6000 RPM shift points)
29 89.8 15.06 168 lower shift points to 5000 RPM
30 94.8 14.39 207 re-install KB Number 1 intake manifold
31 95.9 14.29 214 KB11804-KB11904 Stage 1 valves only
32 97.4 14.12 221 ported and polished high port heads w/KB Stage 1 valves
33 98.5 14.01 228 KB Mark 2R cam
34 no change Rhoads lifters
35 100.0 13.87 240 KB Mark 3R cam kit
36 no change KB Mark 3RS cam kit (same design as 3R but solid lifter)

Note: 10.2:1 CR will run fine on 92 octane, use Rhoads lifters on Mark 2R or 3R
cams to smooth out for street use

37 101.9 13.72 250 KB 12:1 compression ratio pistons
38 102.8 13.64 255 KB9301 roller rocker arms
39 102.8 13.04 255 10" x 29.5" slicks, 5.13:1 gears and Doug Nash 4 speed
40 103.7 12.93 263 KB aluminum pulleys

Note: The above 12:1 compression engine can be run on the street but requires
100 octane fuel.

The following tests are for a competition only vehicle. Engine was rebuilt
with heavy duty block and rods, studs, MSD ignition, scattershield, steel
flywheel, etc. Suspension was also optimized for drag race (Ron Cosner front
and 4 link rear).

41 104.0 12.89 266 blueprinted engine
42 no change increase bearing and piston clearance 0.001"
43 106.1 12.59 278 KB Mark 5RS cam
44 109.4 12.31 304 KB82-7342 roller cam kit with Crane roller lifters
45 110.5 12.20 311 Mr. Gasket electric water pump kit
46 111.3 11.99 323 13:1 pistons
47 no change KB/Howards aluminum rods
48 no change install identical odd-fire engine
49 115.0 11.72 358 install identical 252" engine
50 124.0 10.80 442 Ported Stage 2 heads, KB roller rockers, head studs,
cam kit, 3-in-1 headers, Edelbrock Stage 2 intake
manifold
51 125.0 10.71 451 Change to 750 Carter or Holley
52 no change Milodon gear drive
53 122.1 11.00 Powerglide tranmissions and 7" high stall converter
54 126.4 10.60 493 276" stroker V6 with powerglide
55 129.0 10.30 493 Doug Nash 5 speed transmission

Note: KB ultimately turned 9.18 @ 146.5 MPH in 2400 lb car, breaking
the NHRA record

Impressive info Dan. It's Edith's car so I doubt we'll be building any more power into it but the 4bbl is probably a good thing to do. There's a guy on turbobuick who said he'd sell me a 4.1 intake for $25 plus shipping, I figure that's a pretty good deal but we'd still need to get the q-jet to go with it. She's concentrating on interior parts like carpet and seat covers so she can drive it so I may have a little trouble pushing that agenda through, but maybe we can do some trading. She has chrome/plastic wheel covers on it right now and loves them. It's clear that her approach is much different from my own, but it's her car so about all I can really do right now is to get it on the road and licensed. Then the fresh air plenum will become important, which will lead to the carb and intake. (Don't know where I could snag a good plenum do you?) Things like wheels and tires will have to wait until they become issues, which won't be long based on the age of the tires. Somehow that link on the brakes didn't work too well. Don't know the tire size, I'm guessing it's the 205's but could be wrong.

One other possibility is that cold air induction hose if I could find or make an air horn to match the 2bbl carb. Edith would be fine with that.

Jim

> There's a guy on turbobuick who said he'd sell me a 4.1 intake for
> $25 plus shipping

It's not a pretty intake but works fine. Do you know what year
your engine is? The 4.1L V6 intake fit's the '79 and later taller
port cylinder heads. It's a single plane intake but that's not a
problem on the V6 which does not suffer from adjacent firing
cylinders like a 90 degree V8.

If you do ever rebuild the engine, I've got the Ruggles Buick V6 guide,
along with the Buick Free Spirit V6 Performance Guide and the SA Designs
V6 Power book. Those are the best resources for naturally aspirated
Buick V6's. I've also got copies of Smokey's 5 point Buick V6 plan
and some other resources.

> I figure that's a pretty good deal but we'd still need to get the
> q-jet to go with it.

There were a bunch of Qjet variations. Buick used a specific Qjet
for the Buick V6. They were calibrated differently and may have had
a secondary stop as well. Those are kind of rare as Buick switched
to electronically controlled Qjets (O2 sensor feedback was used to
control a solenoid that cycled at 10 Hz to control fuel flow to the
main jet) on the later 4.1L Buick V6's. You'll want the smaller Qjet
with the 1 3/32" primary venturi diameter (versus 1 7/32") with a
side inlet (the front entry version fouls the Buick V6 thermostat
housing though I made one work). Edelbrock has the Qjet tuning parts
you'll need to dial the carb in. One common Qjet problem is leaking
metering wells. The wells have plugs pressed in the bottom, which
may leak and cause the carb to run rich. You can seal the plugs with
an epoxy compound called Marine Tex (other epoxies may not stand up to
the heat). Holley uses Marine Tex to repair porous castings.

> maybe we can do some trading.

Do you still have that A9L Ford EEC? I might have a use for that.
Check the OD of your sway bars. I may have larger diameter set of
sway bars I can throw in to the trade pile.

> Then the fresh air plenum will become important, which will lead
> to the carb and intake. (Don't know where I could snag a good
> plenum do you?)

I'll check around on the plenum.

> Somehow that link on the brakes didn't work too well.

The URL has a space between Big and Brakes and it looks like
it got truncated. If you add a space and Brakes.html that
link should work. Let's see if this will work:

"http://web.mac.com/jclaythompson/iWeb/Site/Big Brakes.html"

> Don't know the tire size, I'm guessing it's the 205's but could be wrong.

205/60/13 tires are pretty common on the 13"x5.5" rims and a worthwhile
upgrade over the OEM 185's. They look a whole bunch better too,
especially with lower springs.

By the way, I'm heading to Ohio in a few weeks if you want to
do some trading.

Dan Jones

Dan, let me know as your visit gets closer, at the very least you should stop by to look at the MGB-Roadmaster. Turns out the tires are the 185's so an upgrade there would be easy. Dan B. sent me the link to the brakes which look like a good idea when we decide she needs brakes. I haven't had the chance to look at them yet. May be issues there, I'll know in a few days. Sorry to say I sold the Ford controller awhile back on ebay but, who knows? I'm not stuck on the Q-jet by any means. I like efi. But I'll use it if I have to. Thanks for the pointers and such. I think it'll be a pretty good little buggy, and Edith is looking forward to trying out the autocross course at next year's meet.

Jim

> Dan, let me know as your visit gets closer,

Will do. Looks like I'll be in the weekend of August 22nd.

> at the very least you should stop by to look at the MGB-Roadmaster.

I've been meaning to but I've had no time to spare on my last few
trips. One weekend I did 2400 miles moving 3 vehicles and another
weekend was 1600 miles moving two more. I've got to move one more
vehicle and do one more truck and trailer load.

> Turns out the tires are the 185's so an upgrade there would be easy.

Yes.

> Dan B. sent me the link to the brakes which look like a good idea when
> we decide she needs brakes. I haven't had the chance to look at them
> yet. May be issues there, I'll know in a few days.

The rear wheel cylinders are prone to leaking if not driven frequently.
A popular change is to the proportioning valve to increase bias to the
rear brakes so they actually do something.

> I'm not stuck on the Q-jet by any means. I like efi.

If you look for a junkyard Buick V6 EFI intake, be aware the Series II
3800 has a shorter deck height so the intakes won't bolt up. Some of
the earlier transverse mount intakes may fit, though. The '86 and '87
turbo intakes will bolt up fine but the shape may not fit under the hood.
I once looked into fitting a GN turbo V6 but the turbo was mounted too
high and the leading edge of the intake was above the slope of the hood.

Dan Jones

Did a little work on the heater controls today. The far right control was very floppy and did nothing and the one next to it was a little crooked. I thought the assembly would have to come off and be replaced but it turned out to be a pretty easy fix. There were two problems. The far right linkage lever had come part way off the shaft splines, letting the left pivot point move around and wobble. Plus the rod for the far right control was very hard to move and the arm it connected to had bent, putting it in a bind. So first I used a large c-clamp to press the arm back on the spline and get all the spacers, washers and such back where they belonged. Then I removed the retainer from the control rod that was bound up, discovering that it then moved much easier. So I simply straightened the arm, reconnected it, and it all works perfectly now. Simply amazing. We can now go ahead with installation of the new carpet once I figure out what to do with the wires to the shifter.

By the way, anyone happen to have a shifter and console out of an automatic car? We've decided to try and fit the original TR7 piece if we can find one.

Jim

Turns out the heater control valve does indeed need to be replaced, so installing the carpet will have to wait until I can find one. So far no luck but Dan and I plan to visit Eric next weekend and he may have a usable one I can get. In the meantime I've gotten a few other things done. Bumped the floors back out where some lift jockey used them as jacking points (hey, the car isn't quite THAT light), removed and blocked off the EGR hardware behind the carb, modified the Edelbrock foam element (triangular) air cleaner to fit the 2bbl Rochester DuoJet carb with plenty of room behind it for the fresh air plenum (something else I hope Earl has) and replaced a missing header bolt thereby eliminating a bothersome header leak. The gasket was fine apparently. There was also a vacuum line off the coolant manifold vacuum switch to the distributor. It was ported vacuum so that should help on cruise but now I suspect the timing is off significantly. More research there before I go changing it though. It looks advanced maybe 30 degrees or so. And before I can adjust the idle mixture screws I will need a small and extremely short screwdriver. Might have to make one. Then there's that steering shaft bushing to change out.

So far the only money we've spent on the car was for the carpet. Not bad. I do need to find out where the wires for the backup light switch are located. Apparently not in the transmission tunnel.

Jim