Engine and Transmission Tech

In the further adventures of injecting the engine in my yellow GT, I have removed the Autronics 1000 cfm TB and have started the install of a Holley Commander 950. The Autronics made bunches of power, but I ran out of gas twice in one day- seems horsepower comes with a price. I could roll out and floor the gas and it would spin the tires bare in spite of the Auburn posi, but it was only getting 10 MPG.

My quest is a small cap HEI distributer similar to the later 7 or 8 pin Chevy parts, but it has to be built on a Buick platform, probably a V6 model. With this, I can control ignition as well as fuel with the Holley ECU. I found a rebuilder that can make me one as a large cap unit, but so far, no small cap version.

Jim B, do I hear from you?

Jim Stuart
1966 4.0 Roadster
1974 308 CI GT

Very interesting. Jim, I hope you're taking lots of photos and that you're planning to write-up an article when the dust settles. Re: the small-cap HEI distributor... have you contacted Jeff Schlemmer yet?



p.s. Jim, Al Wulf and I were talking about you just the other day. Were your ears burning? Al dropped by my house and offered me the chance to test drive his new 14CUX installation. Al pretty much followed your tech session notes, and the results are VERY, VERY nice. Instant start-up and smooth power. I don't know what I'm waiting for!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 08:24PM by Moderator.

Jim, if you have a Chevy small cap unit you might be able to convert it to Buick specs but I'm guessing that would be difficult. It might be possible to mount a module and pickup on an earlier distributor body. But while I sympathize with what you're trying to do I don't know whether Buick even used a small body HEI or not. It would have to be back in the mid-late '70s or early '80s before they came out with the large body HEI and I have never even owned a car with GM's HEI in any configuration whatsoever, so my experience is limited.

As you know, I lean more towards distributorless crank trigger systems. That completely gets the distributor out of the way. The most difficult thing about that is tacking a trigger wheel into place behind the damper. The pickup can be mounted using the old fuel pump bolts, and the coil packs aren't hard to locate. GM is now using distributorless systems so a controller shouldn't be a problem unless they do not use a stand alone module and only control the coil packs from the ECM. If that is the case, then Ford's EDIS or an aftermarket distributorless system are about all that's left as far as I know. Luckily the EDIS is very versatile and will provide spark even if it's not connected to anything else but power. Your new TBI controller should interface with it for advance control, though a call to the manufacturer might be needed to find out exactly how to configure for it. There should be internal settings for that. (It doesn't seem likely they would make separate controllers for GM and Ford when only that one timing output is different.)

I know you've probably looked at all the other possible options. Maybe the HEI you are looking for is out there. I just can't confirm or deny it's existence. But I'm glad to hear you got that old Autronics piece working. That just might make a real nice 4 bbl throttle body for a port injector system. I think that would be the ultimate in cool for a semi-retro N/A setup, and should give good mileage too.

Jim

Quote:

The most difficult thing about that is tacking a trigger wheel into place behind the damper. The pickup can be mounted using the old fuel pump bolts

Bill Jacobson's 215


Note: the pickup bracket shown here also supports Bill's alternator...

Jim, you might try this guy:

[www.davessmallbodyheis.com]

So far nobody has come up with a stock unit, this is it for now.

Jim

Jim, what are you using for a carb for the Baddass? Can you say 1000 CFM throttle body? I can't afford to donate the Autronics, but I could work out a pretty good price.

That's worth thinking about Jim, what is that thing worth? I'm guessing you are talking about the throttle body and whatever controller goes with it? You said you got kinda bad mileage with that. Do you think it was because it was overly large for the 300, or just a characteristic of the Autronics? A 1000cfm unit should be just about right for the 455, especially with the new heads and that Poston intake. (Apparently, based on a recent poll, it is a moderately popular intake and somewhat better than stock.)

So have you figured out how to solve your puzzle yet? I haven't had the chance to ride in your car yet and I'd really like to do that at the summer meet. It's got to have just gobs of torque.

Jim

Oversized for the application, tuned for max power. screw the fuel economy, only driven with the pedal to the floor .

It needs a single plane, the factory piece is not ideal.

I'm trying to get the new FI running for the summer meet, so you should get to take it out for a spin, along with other interested parties.

No progress on the dizzy, but I have some ideas to try.

So did Bill fabricate that trigger wheel? So the Ford EDIS is something easy to modify? I'm using E85 so the spark curve is way more advanced. I guess I could just do my own research but just in case somebody else has done this I might as well benefit from their experience.

Thanks in advance.

In this article Bill reported that the trigger wheel came from "www.triggerwheels.com":
Under-Hood Eaton M90 Supercharger (on an MGB w/ Buick 215 V8)

Nick
I bought the trigger wheel from triggerwheels.com. They have them in several sizes and teeth count. I did machine out the center hole so it would bolt to the backside of the stock 215 balancer. Once it was bolted to the balancer, I chucked the balancer assembly in a lathe. Then machined off approx 1/16" of the teeth, both to true it, and so it would clear the front cover where the water pump mounts.
EDIS is very easy to use, but it does require a controller for timing control. Either a Mega-squirt ECU or some type of stand alone control box. Mega-squirt allows 12x12 table timing programing, so you can virtually set up any type of timing curve desired.
Bill

Thanks for the help guys. That build looks like it was a lot of fun to make. We must all have a desire to solve puzzles and mysteries to build these engines. LOL. I do get a lot of enjoyment from it.

So maybe I could just build a Mega-Squirt ECU just for the spark timing since my plan is to use a carb. I wonder if the ECU would function properly without the fuel side inputs. Hmmm. I figured it'd just need the speed signal to map the curve…

There has to be another guy doing this. I'll see what I can find out.

There's a gent on the V8 Buick board who modified a Huffaker intake for use on his 300. I think his name is Sean. Here's a pic. Wouldn't be difficult to mod one for port injection I think.

Greg






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2009 11:31AM by Greg55_99.

Nick
There are guys who use Mega- squirt for timing control only. Lots of info here at msefi.com
Bill

There is also the Mega-Jolt. Do a search. But I think the cost difference is slight.

Jim

I just saw your post. I actually found the same thing. Megajolt Lite Jr. I guess Bowling and Grippo (of MegaSquirt) was working on something called MegaJolt but I'm not sure where it went. The only reference was an old website from 2002. A company called Autosport labs makes this one. It really didn't take long to figure out. Seems like a really simple process to get a totally tunable system.

I landed on the Ford EDIS 8 with a Megajolt Lite Jr controller. The whole system will endup around $250. Not bad. For those out there who, like me, are thinking this is too complicated to figure out, take a quick look at it. Pretty cool stuff. I would venture to say it could be easier than rebuilding an HEI and trying to tune the springs to give you the right advance. With this just put the numbers in you want. The Ford setup is pretty dang smart. Simple and robust. Good stuff.

I figure the easiest setup would be the MAP sensor rig because you just have to plug it in to a manifold port. I'm worried that my cam choice prohibits me from making that choice though because of the potential rough idle. I figure I'll have to retrofit a TPS in somehow.

So I spent the weekend chopping up an old distributer to see if I could make a short oil pump gear driver. It was so easy I couldn't believe it. FUN! Here's some pix.

First I removed the gear/shaft, and chopped the dist head off.


Then the shortened the shaft.


Removed the bushing from the head, drilled out the base and pressed the bushing in the top. SUPER easy.


Here's how it turned out. The bushing hasn't been pressed in yet in this pic but you get the idea. Then all I need is a cap for the end of the shaft sticking out and we are golden. FUN!

Now that I think about it more, do you guys think I even need to press in the upper bushing? I could just cut the shaft to match the lower bushing then just tap the top and put a set screw in it. I'm thinking the upper bushing has to be there for the head parts anyway. Hmmm.

Then again pulling out the assembly after it was installed would be WAY more difficult. LOL!

I'd use the top bushing Nick, it will help stabilize the shaft and you don't want to take too many chances on your oil pump drive. Also, look at how the oil splash works it's way through the stock distributor body and try to imitate it to make sure you get oil to the top bushing. May not need much lubrication, but some is necessary. On mine instead of cutting the neck I turned down the head to fit a 1" copper cap and cut an o-ring groove. By that point most of the bulk was gone. It sticks up a little more though. You can probably get by with a rubber cap on yours but I'd put some sort of a retainer on the shaft just so it can't fall into the engine accidentally.

Jim

Thanks Jim. The way it looked there was a little reservoir cut in the top of the head with holes through the bushing. Like maybe the oil was meant to come up through the bushing and sit in the top of the head. Maybe I could cut some oil grooves in the bushing?

Yeah, IIRC one or more of those passages tied into the space between the bushings and then there was a felt washer up on top under a plastic cap. I got the idea that oil mist or fumes came up and got trapped by the felt washer, and then lubricated the bushing on the way back down, so I think maybe I drilled another hole or two to direct oil from the bottom of one or more of those passages back into the bushing. It seems to have worked, the drive still rotates freely and doesn't wobble. Possibly you could get the same effect by putting a groove up through the bushing like you said. Older stock distributors used an oil cup for periodic lubrication (don't know if they were ever actually used or not) and Mallory used a ball bearing at the top. You don't have to control shaft wobble the way a distributor does so it can be looser without hurting anything, but you don't want it binding up.

Jim