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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 21, 2009 09:41PM

Isn't it about time? I suspect if "forward" thinkers from this forum and say, V8 Buick(sbb), ask a company "like" Doug Herbert etc.-not a plug," how much to make say qty. 10-50 of ROLLER billet cams, with/with-out stepped bearing dias'"? These companies have many cam" masters" specifically for the sbc. hyd/mech. lifters,(the lifter of choice). Volume talks and they "retail", #8620 material, rollers at $230., just an example. "If" there were enough interest, I could build the tooling to readily, "bronze bush" our beloved motors, making low cost sbc. lifters suitable. Anyone? roverman.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: November 21, 2009 11:40PM

Yeah, I was wondering when the BOPR engine was going to enter the 80's and get a reasonable set of roller cam hardware. The lifter bore is the same as the Chevy, so that end of the hardware shouldn't be hard to come up with. What's left? The camshaft?

They make link-bar lifters, so just use those lifters on a roller grind of your choice. Yet, there's nothing out there that's off-the-shelf.

The shaft rocker system should be rigid enough to bear the higher spring rates needed for roller lifters. Roller rockers would be a help. Beehive springs will reduce the spring pressures needed. Seems like a slam dunk, but I guess things look easy to me because I don't really know how they get done.

Regardless, I'd like to see something like this happen. Art, I'll commit to buy a cam or two, just tell me where to send the money. BTW, my application would be hydraulic roller cams for emissions-legal engines.

Edit; a post-script - on the subject of rigid rocker shafts, I heard an idea from Ted Eaton over on the y-blocksforever forum. Gun drill a solid bar to make a heavy walled rocker shaft. Then chrome the shaft for a durable finish.

Doing this one-at-a-time would be spendy, so it might make sense to have a place like that rocker arm rebuild company job the project.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2009 11:45PM by pcmenten.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 22, 2009 08:30AM

We'd have to get our British cousins on board with us. I only just finished this engine with a nice Erson cam from Woody. On the 360 I'd be in though.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 22, 2009 10:17AM

The BOPR engines have the oil galley too close to the bottom of the lifter bore to use a standard roller lifter so it's necessary to use a "skirted" design where the roller is recessed into the body of the lifter. These are more expensive to produce due to more complicated machining processes and the prices for them tend to be higher. That would be the first thing to source. It has been done. TA sells a billet roller cam for the 350 which isn't much different. But it'll set you back nearly $1500 for the cam and lifters.

Jim


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 22, 2009 11:07PM

Sweet. Are those like the ones GM was using back in the 80's? I think I remember seeing some that looked like that in my Dad's Olds Diesel the 3rd time we were rebuilding it. What a pile. Anyway, maybe we could use something like that??


nalle
Bjorn Nilsson

(21 posts)

Registered:
09/29/2009 12:03AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: nalle
Date: November 23, 2009 12:57AM

Jim, is it something like these [static.summitracing.com] ? I am trying to understand the design you are talking about.


castlesid
Kevin Jackson
Sidcup UK
(361 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2007 10:38AM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB GT Rover V8 4.35L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: castlesid
Date: November 23, 2009 04:41AM

The Wedge shop do a custom Erson roller cam and the correctly shrouded roller followers for the princely sum of $1759.00

I have seen the shrouded roller followers from other sources, TA Performance and elsewhere for reasonable money so if one of the cam producers was prepared to do a custom roller cam for sensible money it could be worthwhile, might be worth asking comp Cams as they do make roller cams.

rollercam.jpg

Kevin.



BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 23, 2009 08:42AM

Those are the type, as Kevin posted. Notice how the rollers are recessed up into the body of the lifter. Without this feature there will be huge leaks when on the lobe. Also I'm pretty sure Olds used larger diameter lifters but you might check it.

Jim


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 23, 2009 10:06AM

That's exactly what they looked like. I wonder how big they are. I think my Dad's probably got a lifter laying around. It was a pretty cool looking part. Fun to fiddle for the ADD mind with while talking on the phone. I'll give him a call and find out what the diameter is. Can't hurt.


hoffbug
Tony Hoffer
Minnesota
(323 posts)

Registered:
10/15/2007 05:25PM

Main British Car:
Olds 215 EFI

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: hoffbug
Date: November 23, 2009 10:09AM

I believe Crower also has the correct roller lifter ( solid) and the ability to custom grind.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 23, 2009 11:13AM

Forum Folks, My main point was, once the lifter bores are bronze bushed, we run any @##$^^&&**, sbc. lifter we want-Cheep! I suspect this will lead to reduced bleed-off and pressure loss oil from lifters bores,(better fit when hot), plus some beneficial pre-stress of the bores? BOPR. lifter dias. are same as sbc. @ .842",(also our rod width).I haven't done a bleed-off check of the OEM sbc. hyd. roller lifter yet,anyone? It looks a "lot" like the roller pictured except for tie bar. Want cheep mech roller lifter? Take hyd. guts outta sbc., put the "lid" back in to bottom, add longer push rod and "viola", you"ve just made a lighter/stronger mech. lifter. T&D made thick rocker shafts for B/R. Not cheep but good. I know of no rocker mfgr' that makes "rollers" with "needles" on shafts. Crane and Kenne Bell had alum. bores. This kind of $, I want needles in there.Since TA moved their valve angle to 13 deg., this "should" have made room for needle/roller rockers. Can we get a "want" list together and get ball/roller, goin? roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 23, 2009 11:35AM

Lets do it! No answer from my Dad yet but I suspect the lifters fit the stock lifter bores for a 350 chevy. I'll keep digging. Good idea about homemade solid lifters. COOL!


castlesid
Kevin Jackson
Sidcup UK
(361 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2007 10:38AM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB GT Rover V8 4.35L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: castlesid
Date: November 23, 2009 12:10PM

Art,

Yella Terra's have needle bearings but again are not cheap.

[www.yellaterra.com]

Kevin.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 23, 2009 02:16PM

Ok, So if we've taken the plunge to use sbc lifters...why not lube thru the push rods? "If we do this, can we not use sbc roller/needle rockers on a "smaller" dia., solid shaft? Probably strong enough with-out "end supprts". IF you must have end supports, why not each end of the head, simpler and the strength is already there. While we're on this sbc. stuff, we need to stop comparing our valve spring needs to that of sbc's. Most of us will not be using 2.02 and 1.6 dia. valves. Most of us will not be running the radical "ramps" as raced in sbc's. For most of us, our valve train requirements will closely resemble Buick V6, after-market parts.Let's narrow this down. Lets get a consensus.Let's focus and then go-for-it. roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 23, 2009 03:54PM

I've already converted for oiling though the pushrods for my engine. It just took getting hollow push rods and blocking off the oiling ports in the head.. I like the idea of going with a solid shaft. I think a hollow one might be stronger… Wait that's true for bending but we're probably talking about more shear force than bending force. Lighter though.

SO you're talking about those shaft conversion thingys the Chevy guys use, right? The little shafts that bolt into the stud mounts or whatever? Just ditch the little shaft thing and use one shaft per side mounted on the existing perches. We could make mounts that resemble the D&D gussets for the ends of the shaft…



NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 23, 2009 04:14PM

Peep these:

[www.kmjent.com]


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 23, 2009 04:16PM

Nic-et-all, yes. Gives us cheep/good rockers with ratios uo to 1.7/1. Remember our small base circles for 3.85" strokes? In leiu of support bracket on ea. end of current design, affix a "support plug" in the end/rocker cover support wall. Make the "new" shaft reach this. More -simple, I like simple.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 23, 2009 06:07PM

That'd work well with an o-ringed cast valve cover... now who can we get to make those for us?

Jim


hoffbug
Tony Hoffer
Minnesota
(323 posts)

Registered:
10/15/2007 05:25PM

Main British Car:
Olds 215 EFI

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: hoffbug
Date: November 23, 2009 09:26PM

Peep these:

[www.kmjent.com]


Nic. Are those 289 for the whole set of do you need 8 pairs of them?

I know some folks poo-poo on T&D but I love their stuff.
You have choice of steel or Aluminum and choice of rocker ratios as well...( the steel rockers isnt available for the SBB/Rover yet)
since the Buick 215 stuff uses the stands on the heads its about 1/2 the price of a SBC setup. T&D says they can do up to a 1.7 ratio for the rocker, their shafts are solid gun drilled.. and due to the design of their rocker you can either oil through shaft like factory or through the pushrod. Like a SBC...

I run their stuff on the Chevelle and its very high quality.. see below.

http://www.usfamily.net/web/hoffbug/T&D shaft rockers.jpg




Nic..Look at the horrible finish on the rocker body next to the adjusting nut.. And this is on a site that they are trying to sell something!

http://www.kmjent.com/ebay/Pro%20Comp/PC2346y.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2009 12:45PM by hoffbug.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 23, 2009 09:56PM

I suspect on our sbb/Rovers, rocker loads will be approx. 60-70% of sbc's with 2.02/1.6 valves? I'm thinkin the "bargin" roller rockers have a good chance of holding up, provided we supply a good shaft and mounting? Comp.Cams stainless rockers at $259. I think that beats "Wildcat"? I'm ready to build shafts. What say? roverman.
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