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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/bargain rockers?
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 24, 2009 10:51AM

Whoa! I just pressed-apart a "Pro Form" needle/roller, rocker for sbc. Bad idea! Not made to disassemble, rebuild/etc. Some of the needles-gone. Shaft is stepped-down ea. end from .720" to .466 dia's.(bearing id).Unless someone finds rockers with a straight shaft through them, this won't fly. I'm considering counterboring alum rocker for bigger needles, but this rocker is already weakened by huge slot in middle. Anybody? roverman.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 24, 2009 11:04AM

Look into aluminum extrusions. There is bound to be an extrusion company that has a shape that will work for rockers. (maybe even with a near net size bore) Slice them to length, drill and ream the needle bearing bore, slot and drill for the roller and pin, drill and tap for the adjuster, and all you need is the shaft. Don't pay $700 a set, it's one of the easiest engine parts to make.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 24, 2009 12:18PM

Jim, sounds pretty simple. How much do you want for 1-2 sets with-out shafts? roverman.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 24, 2009 12:45PM

Depends on how much you want to do Art. Find the extrusion and the hardware and I can do it fairly cheap. If I was making some for myself, same thing. But I'm not. So, how much do you want to do yourself?

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 24, 2009 01:45PM

Jim and all, My first choice,still digging, is to use a sbc. design with a one dia. shaft. I simply have too much on my plate, "907", Silver State Classic, etc., to build rockers from scratch. Maybe their out-there. I'm waiting to hear back from "Herbert". Thanks, roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 24, 2009 05:12PM

That's bitchin', Jim.

GOod point, Tony. I was just ripping something from online to stimulate a response. I guess I got my wish!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2009 05:14PM by NixVegaGT.


hoffbug
Tony Hoffer
Minnesota
(323 posts)

Registered:
10/15/2007 05:25PM

Main British Car:
Olds 215 EFI

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: hoffbug
Date: November 24, 2009 05:28PM

Nic..
Not trying to be a dick....Its just a relex effect of working 24 years in the pest control industry.. :-)

I can tell you first impressions do mean something... If I see a restaurant with greasy windows and a crappy dining area I can guarantee you they dont give a rip about kitchen sanitation....

If I see someone post an obviously crappy casting on a site that they are going to sell something that tells me something about their commitment to proper machining and QC.... Ive seen enough stuff fail over 21 years of hotrodding/drag racing... their isnt any free lunch as far as Ive ever seen.



roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 24, 2009 05:58PM

Ok, "I" waz deadasleep at the engineering wheel. How would we "individually" adjust ea. lash with "no" adjuster?u-no,sbc? Mabe we could mount all the studs on a rigid plate bolted to rocker pedastles? When we consider the rocker loads of sbc's, studs should be adequate. Anybody? roverman.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 28, 2009 03:36PM

Up-date, Doug Herbert is working up a quote for qty's: 10,25 and 50 roller cams. Lobe centers approx. 102/114deg avail.Hyd./mech. 215's through 350's. Anybody ready for serious? roverman.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2009 02:10PM

Update, The lifter-of-choice, oem. hyd. roller may well be Buick 3.1L V6, fwd. eng. You can "peep" on the GN. V6 webb site for details. Looks similar to sbc but specific for Buicks. Perhaps this Buick lifter is convertable to mech.? At $600 from TA for V8 set of aftermarket's, this might be worth a look. roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 01, 2009 03:08PM

Ok getting closer. Here's some pix from a GN website using Chev 3.1L 60 V6 roller lifters. In this pic they are set into a 3.8L Buick:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/engine-tech/45665d1207014525-fwd-roller-non-roller-cam-parts-gn-motor-w-pictures-img_0130.jpg

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/engine-tech/45666d1207014636-fwd-roller-non-roller-cam-parts-gn-motor-w-pictures-img_0110.jpg

Here's a couple comparo pix of the stock 3.8 lifter and the Chevy roller lifter. I guess the benefit is the height:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/engine-tech/41943d1201794498-fwd-roller-non-roller-cam-parts-gn-motor-w-pictures-img_0021.jpg
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/engine-tech/41944d1201794524-fwd-roller-non-roller-cam-parts-gn-motor-w-pictures-img_0024.jpg

Here's an excerpt with the spec data:
Quote:
The lifters out of a 1995 Chev Lumina 3.1L V-6 measure .842" wide and 2.228" high. The stock lifters are .842" wide by 2.005" high. When used with a Comp Cams 258HR (ductile iron) specs. 206/206 .498 lift, 110 LSA ......there is lots of ramp-up clearance (where the roller touches the cam,) lots of shoulder clearance top at max lift (.160" to be exact....... so the shoulder doesn't hit the dog-bones) and bottom or base circle ( .115" above flush deck....for the dog-bone retainers to stay in place) Use the retainer and bones out of a 1986 Vin "3" 3.8 roller block as shown in the photo's above (personally I would shorten the length of the spacer a little to put a little more pressure on the dog bones, but only about .200" inch less than the 1.00" suggested, you don't want too much pressure on them either)...........the only thing left to get are pushrods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2009 03:09PM by NixVegaGT.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2009 05:01PM

Good job Nic. Now I need to compare sbc,oem roller to these. Maybe there same? If so, Bingo! =megacheep. "take-outs" are dirt cheep, so they tick?-gut-em! New ones $99(16), all day. Everbody sing..."Rollin ona River", roverman.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 01, 2009 11:17PM

Just make sure the top of the "neck" and the oil hole don't uncover at full lift. One other thing, the Buick V6 may use different bore spacing that the BOP/R as it could be based on the 350. Don't know that it is, the heads are more like the 340 but you'll need to make sure because most of the rest of the engine is.

Jim


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 02, 2009 09:42AM

In the pic it looks like the guy was trying to setup the shot to compare from the bottom of the roller. It looks like the oil holes come close to matching. Your point is that maybe the other lifter's oil hole might pop out the top too, right?

My Erson solid cam's lobe lift is 340ish. Art, you're talking about making the base circle bigger and that would put the lifter higher in the bore, right?


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 02, 2009 11:12AM

Nic and clan, To my knowledge, late V6's and 350' sbb's used (1) bearing journal dia.-same as early front. This would theorectically allow .12" larger base circle over stepped design. I can't tell you if same will automatically bump the rods with 3.85" stroke. This is why I suggested "peeping" the upside-down VW style rod= waay more room at bottom of rod. We've thought about volumetric effieciency of these large strokes with,"marginal", a kind term, air flow to feed 350+ inches in na. mode? roverman.



pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: December 02, 2009 11:19AM

Rolling, rolling, rollin' on a Rover.

Looks perfect. Extra lifter height to fit into the dogbones, oil hole in the right place.

Check out the spring-loaded cam button in the top picture. What is that gear on the end of the cam for?


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 02, 2009 11:35AM

That's the distributor/oilpump drive on the earlier Rover/Buick front cover. I totally missed the cam button... So if the later Buick 350 used one bearing dia. why wouldn't there be room? OH I see, you're saying if we make the base dia 1/8" bigger dia that will push the lobe out another 60 thou, right?


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 02, 2009 11:52AM

Larger base circle will make cam stronger/work the "valley" less and be less hostile to the lifters. OEM 350's/late V6's should already have larger base circle? I would think the cast iron folks would want Rover cam retention plate? roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 03, 2009 10:12AM

I think this is the rods you were talking about. Wouldn't that put the nut nearer the cam though??

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1438-1258943954.jpg


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 03, 2009 11:14AM

Nic and clan, pic is of a "stocker"? Look similar to my 907,"deisel" rods,900 grams must be, right? VW ,aftermarket, is quite thinner/rounded on bottom. Depends on where they bump. Buick V6 with "even fire" crank, reportedly they bump on top near bolt. "Fat Performance" or "Empi" might have pics'.rovermn.
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