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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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87gn@tahoe
Wesley Harcourt

(9 posts)

Registered:
01/21/2010 11:48PM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: 87gn@tahoe
Date: January 23, 2010 07:59PM

I would be/am interested in a cam for a TT 300, but I am currently laid off until April so no big $$ 'til then. Prolly a wide-ish LSA and no overlap... Would definately need setup for dist. drive.

By "using the rover retainer" do you mean a "thrust plate"?

If a stock thrust plate could be bolted to a 300 sbb, that would be awesome.. better than using a thrust button. I'm assuming that would work with a stock style 215-350 timing set?

Now, the "noseless" ones, would that be like the front end of a Turbo 6 roller cam?

(10 pages is a lot to read)


OH, I am sure THIS has been discussed before as well but.. Can the cam bearing journals all be bored out safely to 350 SBB size, to take advantage of TA's advanced bearings?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2010 08:11PM by 87gn@tahoe.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: January 23, 2010 09:33PM

Art, outstanding work so far.

I lost a little free time when my SO went to the ER for a MI. IANAC (Cardiologist), but three trips with no real diagnosis tells me we're still in the dark ages of medical practice. All's well, so I'm back to work on projects like carpeting one of my rental units, and prepping an engine for a shiny new cam.

Paul


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/no joke
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 24, 2010 12:27PM

Thanks Paul. It's true, I joke a lot, but I have a serious passion for these engines ! Because of this forum and the and the working gene-pool, Rover just might become, "the lead dog", for a while, at least for some of us. Wesley,#1, retainer = thrust plate. #2,215" style flange will be machined to take "thrust plate", but use is not mandatory. I have not attempted use of plate conversion on non oem. blocks.#3, I would "sonic test", areas of concern, around bearing tunnels for installing "350" bearings. A little "romance" for a "lot" of work. You would need a "one-off" cam be made,(expensive) ! The stock bearings can be re-drilled and rotated, if not available from TA/etc. This procedure is well defined in several Buick V6 books. Were I to go, off-the-deep-end, for cam bearings, I'd go to needles, even "more" work. Onward, roverman.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 24, 2010 04:48PM

For needle bearings you'd have to greatly restrict oil flow to the cam bearings. Otherwise oil pressure would plummet.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/needles ?
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 24, 2010 09:44PM

Jim, yes indeed. They need precious little compared to inserts. Were I to... I think, use machined outer housing/fractured, like modern con-rods and needles would run directly on 8620 cam, with undercut journals, mostly surrounding the needles and reducing "bleed-off. This would also reduce outside of housing for less "tunnel"boring. As a side note, Chevrolet experimented with needle bearings, on the sbc., for mains/rods. For the very reason you mentioned, Jim, they had too much volume required and "bleed-off". These might be handy on a "Coates" headded, sbc. Motor #1 blew-up at around 16,700 rpm. Reportedly #2, lived at 16,500 ! Anyone who has had heard a "Spintron", valve train dyno, at full gallup, can appreciate the "hellacious" forces of impact, with poppet valves. I believe, easily 70+% of all, professionally prepaired, racing motor , catasrophic failures, "start" in the valve train.Further I believe, the future of the piston/recip. motor, lies with slide valve technology. Time will tell. roverman.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/anybody?
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 26, 2010 05:44PM

Prices quoted are for min. qty. of (10), each style nose, ie. flanged or flangeless. NO mix and match. Max of (2) different profiles in 10 cam lot or extra $'s. Regards, roverman.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: January 26, 2010 06:42PM

If I were forced to choose between nose or noseless, I'd choose noseless. Although the cost will be relatively reasonable, I think swapping in a roller cam is going to be popular with the type of builder who wants to spend a little extra on an engine and a few goodies to get a peppy solution.

And I'd be fine with a choice between two profiles; first would be emissions/computer/efi compatible (relatively wide LSA, 112-114, and low overlap - maximize torque at 3750 RPM) , and the second is something sporty but streetable for a carbed engine (narrower LSA, 108-110, max torque at 4500 RPM).

Again, I'd model the first cam on something like the Ford 5.0 H.O. roller from 1989. Max lift to be compatible with stock valve gear (lift in the .420" range?). The dream is to swap out the cam gear on an otherwise stock 4.0/4.6 engine and see an improvement in torque throughout the RPM range.

The second cam would require valve work to increase max lift.

If the crowd wants the nose, then we're looking at slightly sportier profiles because we're dealing with a crowd who is doing more to tune their engines and wants more power (grunt, grunt. Rewire it for more power.) In that case, I'd be wanting something streetable for all my cams.



NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: January 26, 2010 08:18PM

That sounds practical. I'd think the first LSA should be more toward 112 IMO. Maybe make the second one with some more aggressive lift. Over 500. Just pitching out ideas. I'll buy the second one. LOL!


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2241 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: mgb260
Date: January 26, 2010 08:23PM

Remember hydraulic and solid lifters have different ramps also.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 27, 2010 10:42AM

Jim, Old drag racing trick, run mechanical lifters on a hyd. cam,(no clearance ramps). Drags only! roverman.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/on hold
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 27, 2010 11:07AM

Clan, until I get a "yes" for (10) of either, their on hold. roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams/on hold
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: January 28, 2010 07:39AM

1


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/4.0L chain set?
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 28, 2010 04:48PM

WOW, Kragen quoted(Cloyes) $449.! Did I miss something here? Should be close in price to early? I want to machine "late set" to fit sbc. nose. Anybody? roverman.


pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: January 28, 2010 05:22PM

Art, Is that for a roller timing chain? I recently picked one up on eBay from a seller named BullDog or BadDog (or BadBullDog, or something.) I'll update when I get home from work, but it was reasonable.

I've gotten some nice roller stuff from an Oz supplier named Master something. (No, not baiter.) Availability varies.

Edit: RollMaster. Some of their stuff uses high quality German parts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2010 05:26PM by pcmenten.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/what drive ?
Posted by: roverman
Date: January 28, 2010 05:38PM

Paul,Thanks, I'll keep diggin. If your "up" for (5) flangeless cam blanks, I'll consumate the order. "if" I can mod the late Rover roller set,(machinable), I'll also attempt optional use of dizzy gear. roverman.



pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: January 28, 2010 07:13PM

Art, yes, I'm on for five cam blanks. And when I get home, I'll try to dig up the info on the timing chain. Rollin', rollin', rolling on a Rover.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams/ 10 for grins
Posted by: roverman
Date: February 05, 2010 10:35AM

Yup,, Their started! roverman


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6218 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: February 05, 2010 12:09PM

That's way cool!

Hey Art, I think it's worth thinking a little more about the built-up style of roller cam. That is very interesting. Using an alloy tube and sliding the lobes and bearings on would give you great flexibility. I don't think I'd use an aluminum tube though as aluminum generally has a finite life in terms of flex.

JB


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: February 06, 2010 12:20PM

Jim, Using alum. in cars is a tightrope- walk. Connecting rods,serious fatige cycle. Suspension "A'-arms, seem to last forever. Cams, who knows? Push rod probably not, but what-if ? roverman.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3170 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Serious Cams
Posted by: roverman
Date: February 06, 2010 12:40PM

Jim, Using alum. in cars is a tightrope- walk. Connecting rods,serious fatige cycle. Suspension "A'-arms, seem to last forever. Cams, who knows? Push rod probably not, but what-if ? roverman.
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