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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: November 23, 2009 08:59PM

Ok, I did a search but didn't find the answer and just for the fun of it I wanted to ask. Several folks have said you can't use the adjustable olds rocker arms on the Rover engine but I can't remember why. We were looking at the extra parts that I have and there is a set of the adjustable rockers, and seeing how the Rover doesn't have the easy adjustment factor I was curious. Are the measurements off somewhere making them unusable?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 11:04PM by mabie1978.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3021 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: roverman
Date: November 23, 2009 09:44PM

Michelle, It's possible (1) got by me...I've never seen/heard of "any" OEM. 215" Olds , adjustable rockers. If yours are steel, cast/forged, I'd check if they are Volvo's. First clue is shafts are considerably larger dia. and rockers bronze bushed. I think "Nic" posted a pic. while back. Follow our "Roller" thread. It's about to get "interesting", roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 24, 2009 03:19PM

Here's that pic:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/2357000-2357999/2357894_56_full.jpg

The one on the left is Volvo, the one on the right is Buick.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: November 25, 2009 08:43AM

Hmm, I will take a picture of the ones I have. They have an adjustment bolt on the rear of the arm. Kurt has one set built out on the set up piece but the other arms are just in a box. I will post a picture up later so you can figure them out. :)


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: November 25, 2009 12:59PM

Ok, I took a few pictures. There is a set of the adjustable rocker arms that have Thomas and OldsF85 stamped on them. Then there is another set without any names stamped on them but with a series of numbers. Right now the plan is to use the ones that came with the Rover engine, but I was really curious as to the others.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms003.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms007.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms004.jpg


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: November 25, 2009 01:51PM

!!!????!! Where'd those come from? Was there an aftermarket place called Thomas making those??


castlesid
Kevin Jackson
Sidcup UK
(361 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2007 10:38AM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB GT Rover V8 4.35L

Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: castlesid
Date: November 25, 2009 02:25PM

Michelle

Those F85 one's are nice and you dont need special pushrods which is a bonus, They appear to have bronze bushings and If the bushings are in good condition I would use them, they could well be quite rare pieces but I'm no expert on olds engines.

Kevin



pcmenten
Paul Menten

(242 posts)

Registered:
10/08/2009 10:40AM

Main British Car:


Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: pcmenten
Date: November 25, 2009 06:25PM

Wow, I'll bet those are vintage speed parts. Time to start looking through back-issues of Hot Rod to find out when these were made. It would have to be early to mid-60's. Those are pretty specialized parts, fitting only the Olds 215.

BTW, Ted Eaton has a web site with technical data about rocker geometry. It's worth getting to understand the issue before ordering pushrods for those adjustable rockers.

eatonbalancing.com

He's a Ford y-block expert, but he would be very interested by this sort of thing.

[www.eatonbalancing.com]

Edit: Never mind. I thought those other might be Ford y-block.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2009 06:34PM by pcmenten.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Stupid Question about the Olds Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: November 25, 2009 11:04PM

I tried to do some searching on them and from what I found the F85 ran the 215 engine for 3 years. If this is so and you can put an Olds block on a Buick persay, does this mean I can use them on my engine, the Rover 3.5? Has anyone else done this?


castlesid
Kevin Jackson
Sidcup UK
(361 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2007 10:38AM

Main British Car:
1975 MGB GT Rover V8 4.35L

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: castlesid
Date: November 26, 2009 04:55AM

Michelle,

The adjustables look good but have a query as to the oiling of the pushrod cup, on the Rover rockers they are oiled through the rocker from the shaft but can't see how that can happen with the adjustors so may require Chevy style pushrods which oil up to the cup through the pushrods by having oil holes in the balls at both end and tubular pushrods.

I am assuming we have the same shaft dimensions for the adjustables?

Can you show a picture showing the underside of the adjustable rockers?

Before making any decision check the Rover shafts and rockers for wear if there is any looseness of the rockers on the shafts it's likely that they would need replacing anyway, also check the inserts in the pushrod cups as they can wear badly and in extreme cases even fall out, the other ends which bear on the valve stems which have the hardened inserts can also be quite worn which means replacement.

It is also advised to always replace shafts AND rockers if at all worn.

Kevin


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5884 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: November 26, 2009 09:03AM

The rocker shafts should be the same size and you'll have to use Buick shafts, not Olds. Otherwise, provided you use tubular pushrods as Kevin noted it ought to work. The origin of those rockers is a bit of a mystery though. Probably not factory parts with "Thomas" on them.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3021 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2009 11:05AM

I believe the 215 Olds used a "wider" stand to compensate for 7/16" bolt going through into deck(bolt #6) per bore.Definately not the set-up with the Buick/Rover 3/8" bolts. I consider the "Volvo" set-up a good, budget alternative to rollers,$150 for (1) pr.rebuilt-outrite from "Rocker ArmRebuilders".There IS additonal work involved. So far, wer'e looking at considerable $'s for rollers. roverman.


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: December 01, 2009 01:11PM

Well roverman you are correct, it does appear that the stands do have a larger diameter hole. But the arms themselves look to be the same width as the Rover ones on my engine and just lying them against each other they appear to be very similar but I wouldn't know how to measure to check for sure. But if the arms were the same in spec could one not swap out the stands and build them onto new rods? Kurt had a brand new set of the long rods the rockers attach to and I am just guessing but I believe he may have built the one assembled arm that I have of the F85's as the other rockers for the second side are loose in a box. Call me stupid too but what do you mean be considerable dollars for the rollers? Remember this is my first engine build :). My husbands buddy said I should explore every possibility on the arms as the adjustable ones are better than having to shim if needed. But he is very familiar with the Chevy engines and not the Rover ones, he does have back ground as a machinist which is why he keeps telling me to check this and that. thanks!!

Here are a few pics of the underside showing the difference in the stand size.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms008.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms011.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/mabie1978/rockerarms012.jpg


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3021 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2009 01:52PM

I don't know what "Nic" paid, as far as I know, they seem to start at about $525. with shafts and stands. I'm, "still" waiting for my rollers, so nothing new yet. roverman.


cfarmer
Cliff Farmer
South Texas
(21 posts)

Registered:
11/17/2008 03:32PM

Main British Car:
63 TR4, Rover 3.9/4.2

authors avatar
Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: cfarmer
Date: December 01, 2009 02:07PM

The cheapest I've found is from Harland Sharp - rockers only - for $450. I got that price from Randy Becker back in May.



NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 01, 2009 02:46PM

Randy! That was his name. Yah. I spoke directly with him and he was like: "Humph, nobody's here because they all left me here for the damn Daytona Bike week. Screw 'em, how about $400." LOL! That was a couple years ago though. Funny guy.

Total, with the shafts it was probably about $525. I got the shafts off ebay though.



So I'm peeping those pix and I'm all about to make a jab like: "Hey, either you've got girl hands, or those rockers are gigantic!" Then I'm all, " oh, duh." What a dummy.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5884 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 01, 2009 03:29PM

I forget the shaft size, but needle bearings are available in standard sizes such as .8125". For example, you can get a 13/16" shaft size, drawn cup needle bearing with a housing size of 1-1/16 or 1-1/8" in widths from 3/8 to 3/4" and a cheap off the shelf part, probably around 5 bucks each. Torrington or Kaydon. Shafting is available in TGP (turned, ground and polished) as well as HT (heat treated) and probably as hollowbar as well with the above treatments. Alloys might be a bit harder to find in hollowbar but drill rod is always available. Drilling cross holes is possible with carbide bits at elevated hardness levels and possibly with cobalt depending on the hardness. I don't think rocker shafts are "file hard" and would therefore be drillable with the right tooling. Pressing Torrington bearings into stock rockers would probably weaken them too much and they still wouldn't be adjustable.

Jim


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3021 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 01, 2009 04:47PM

Ok, (32) x$5ea= $160(2) bearings per rocker,the norm.Raw material shafts =? Usually TGP/heat treated is approx 62c which leaves laser/water jet or grinding for machining. Hollow bar is usually mill/annealed harness-too soft to run needles on. Problem with a 1 1/16" od. bearing is, circumference of rocker around it and getting enough spring dia. to clear rocker. I ordered rockers on 11/25. "KMJ" had them in-stock,Ohio. Did a "turkey" intervene? When I gettum, I'll order shaft material.Stands are started. Hope to run "pinecone" springs, with-out rev-kit. No Terra here, roverman.


Greg55_99
Greg Williams

(98 posts)

Registered:
11/01/2007 07:12PM

Main British Car:


Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: Greg55_99
Date: December 01, 2009 09:18PM

Hmmm... I wonder if those pieces came out of the Bill Thomas Race Cars Shop back in the old days...

Greg


mabie1978
Michelle Pierce
Elyria, OH
(111 posts)

Registered:
08/25/2008 07:47PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB 3.5 Rover V8

Re: Question about the Olds F85 Rocker Arms
Posted by: mabie1978
Date: December 02, 2009 09:37AM

I can't find any info on the arms, I have searched all over. But would his shop have made them specific for the F85? I thought perhaps a company made them for a special edition from the factory?

Also the adjuster on these has the oiling hole built into the top of the push rod and the inner circle where it goes on the rod has the holes in the bearing for oiling. As for the rods I have a new set of those that came with the parts I acquired.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2009 09:57AM by mabie1978.
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