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tips, technology, tools and techniques related to vehicle driveline components

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NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 10:47AM

I'm going to do this mod so I figured I'd start a thread about it. The mod is to add a bypass from one lifter oil gallery to the other to better balance oil flow between the two sides.

I measured the gap between the block and the flywheel. There is 1 1/2" to work with. Should be more than enough. SWEET! I'll go look for parts at Ace tonight. Seems like a pretty simple mod. We'll see how it comes out.


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4273 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: Moderator
Date: December 09, 2009 11:08AM

My intuition is that this might be a smart mod for racers, and it might make a real good tech article topic too. Please take lots of photos!


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 11:26AM

Cool! Ok.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5124 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 09, 2009 12:38PM

I took another look at the 215 Buick block and it has a drilled passage at the front of the block between the lifter galleys. Your mod is already there! For some strange reason on the larger SBB blocks they did it differently, resulting in a threaded hole in the side of the block near the oil pump, which the 215 block does not have.

Jim


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 01:05PM

I'm not seeing it on the Rover block, I don't think. Here's a pic. Can you see it here?

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/2357000-2357999/2357894_210_full.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4432/2881/23578940046_large.jpg

On this block it's the front cam bearing that has the passage to transfer oil across...


ex-tyke
Graham Creswick
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
(936 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:17AM

Main British Car:
1976 MGB Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: ex-tyke
Date: December 09, 2009 02:23PM

FWIW here's a couple of oil gallery schematics from an F85/Olds 215 (which is probably same as Buick). Not sure about a Rover block, though.
100_4990 (1152 x 864).jpg
100_4991 (1152 x 864).jpg


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5124 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 09, 2009 03:40PM

Take your photo from the rear of the block facing the front and you'll see it.

Jim



NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 03:55PM

@#$%&! I can't do that. It's all assembled. Does anybody got a late Rover block laying around they could take a pic of the inside front of the lifter valley to show what Jim's talking about?


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 04:18PM

I found a pic but the rez is too low. Here's where you're talking about?

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/2357000-2357999/2357894_211_full.jpg
bypass.jpg

I can kinda make out a pressed in brass cup. Is that what I'm seeing?

Maybe I should do the rear block mod anyway?


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2841 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 09, 2009 04:34PM

While your back-there,Nic, you might want to plumb for pressure gage take-off and something like a Moroso 1.5 qt., 1 pc. oil reservoir,(poor- boy accusump).(1) at the front of oiling system , even better,= 3qts of additional oil in system with-out windage or pan clearance issues. Better to take pressure reading near the end of the trail. Trick is to install solenoid valve on resevoir, to facilitate "cold start prelube" = longer lasting engine. roverman.


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 09, 2009 04:46PM

I like the idea. You're saying put a little solenoid pump and pump what's accumulated in the remote reservoir back into the lifter galleries just before start up, right?


Mr. T
Tony Andrews
Kent Island, Maryland
(153 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 03:59PM

Main British Car:
'75 mgb, '74 grille, morspeed bumpers Rover 3.9

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: Mr. T
Date: December 09, 2009 05:26PM

Nic - I'm heading out shortly. If nobody post a pic, I'll pull the 4 loose bolts holding my intake - no valley gasket in place.


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2841 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 09, 2009 05:35PM

Nic and folks, Imagine a 1.5 qt. aluminum bottle, mounted vertically to max of 20 deg. tilt, filled with atmosphereic pressure(air). You start the engine and it fills the container with pressurized oil. In the event of pressure loss,cavitation?, the pressurized oil feeds automatically to maintain pressure untill its empty or pressure comes up. Solenoid control valve gives the option of when flow takes place. Maybe "peep" Moroso, pn.23930 ? roverman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2009 10:02PM by roverman.


hoffbug
Tony Hoffer
Minnesota
(290 posts)

Registered:
10/15/2007 05:25PM

Main British Car:
Land rover 4.6 Buick 300 hybrid ( in progress)

Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: hoffbug
Date: December 10, 2009 09:47AM

edit..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2009 09:49AM by hoffbug.


Mr. T
Tony Andrews
Kent Island, Maryland
(153 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 03:59PM

Main British Car:
'75 mgb, '74 grille, morspeed bumpers Rover 3.9

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: Mr. T
Date: December 12, 2009 01:00PM

Let me know if you want more pics.
DSCN0710.JPG



NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 13, 2009 12:06AM

That works just fine. So, Jim, at the top of the pic, that little boss with the two holes in it is the gallery crossover?


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(5124 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: December 13, 2009 10:15AM

Sure Nuff. Odd that they abandoned that construction on the iron motors, don't you think?

Jim


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4273 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: Moderator
Date: December 14, 2009 01:03PM

Quote:
(Art wrote)
While your back-there,Nic, you might want to plumb for pressure gage take-off and something like a Moroso 1.5 qt., 1 pc. oil reservoir,(poor- boy accusump).(1) at the front of oiling system , even better,= 3qts of additional oil in system with-out windage or pan clearance issues. Better to take pressure reading near the end of the trail. Trick is to install solenoid valve on resevoir, to facilitate "cold start prelube" = longer lasting engine. roverman.

(Nic wrote)
I like the idea. You're saying put a little solenoid pump and pump what's accumulated in the remote reservoir back into the lifter galleries just before start up, right?

(Art wrote)
Nic and folks, Imagine a 1.5 qt. aluminum bottle, mounted vertically to max of 20 deg. tilt, filled with atmosphereic pressure(air). You start the engine and it fills the container with pressurized oil. In the event of pressure loss,cavitation?, the pressurized oil feeds automatically to maintain pressure untill its empty or pressure comes up. Solenoid control valve gives the option of when flow takes place. Maybe "peep" Moroso, pn.23930 ? roverman.

There are lots of photos of Accusump oil accumulators in our new photo gallery section..
Here's one example:
(The solenoid valve is under the green plastic cover. A pressure gauge is at the far end.)
http://www.britishracecar.com/VicSchuster-Turner-MkIII/VicSchuster-Turner-MkIII-BD.jpg

I like the idea of giving the bearings a pressurized shot shot of oil before starting the engine, but I'm still a little foggy on details of how the system works. I'd like to see detailed schematics of how to plumb Accusumps, with all the variables (e.g. dry sump systems.)

Q1: If you've got five quarts of oil in the oilpan, and you release a three quart Accusump, doesn't that mean you'll have almost eight quarts of oil in the oilpan until you build up pressure again? (I wonder if maybe a smaller Accusump might actually be better.)

Q2: Should there be an oil filter between Accusump and engine? To me, it looks like an Accusump would seriously complicate cleaning out an engine following a bearing failure. Are the tanks designed to be taken apart and cleaned?


NixVegaGT
Nicolas Wiederhold
Minneapolis, MN
(659 posts)

Registered:
10/16/2007 05:30AM

Main British Car:
'73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker

authors avatar
Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: NixVegaGT
Date: December 14, 2009 01:35PM

Good questions, Curtis. I hadn't even considered the clean out issue. Although the container would be taking oil off filter side if I take it off the back of the block from the lifter galleries. Maybe it wouldn't get pieces in it that way??

The point about extra oil in the system is a good one...


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(2841 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: rear oil bypass
Posted by: roverman
Date: December 14, 2009 02:24PM

Curtis and all, Regarding Q1, I would want the gage visable from where I'm normally starting the engine. Further, I would want perhaps, a temporary,(impulse-on) switch for "short" pre-lube cycle, no need to flood the sump, and a normal-on switch for engine running. The Accusumps with a "floating piston", I'm familiar with, have a snap-ring, usefull for disassembly, cleaning/inspection of debris. Regarding Q2, 3 quarts should be fine when using impulse lube,(watching pressure gage), during cold start-up. The 1 piece,(bottle) accumulator such as Moroso # 23930, is just that, a "bottle",1.5 qts and cheep. In case of engine failure, one would, drain the bottle, if not already empty, and observe the contents. It's at the end of the oiling system so least likey to get contaminated. 100% flush clean or throw-away. Dry sump systems need none of this stuff by their de$ign. roverman.
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