Engine and Transmission Tech

Firstly, I am thankful for this website and its members. My deepest thanks for your insight and dedication. Secondly, as the title states, I am going to attempt an early 70's Olds 455 backed by a T400 Trans in a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine. Any thoughts? Words of encouragement? I am dismantling the donor car with great care currently. I have found the alpine this morning I intend to use. I will be picking it up in the next week I hope. Christmas gift to myself. I understand its an odd combo, but I am convinced all the same. Share your feedback with me, it will be appreciated.

Make sure you have another block for the trunk as a ballast! That is a big heavy engine! I hope you reinforce/plate the frame and body connections! You dont want to tear the car apart!

:D, You have a very good point! Thanks Mike. So, Ill make that priority, swimming pool full of hippos in the trunk for weight distribution, and major reenforcement for frame/body connections. Any thoughts on springs? How am I going to prevent the nose from face planting?

John, I don't think you'll get too much negative feedback for the idea of a big V8 in a little British Car from the guys around here!
The Olds isn't the lightest of the big blocks or the smallest. Unless you're dead set on an Olds the Buick 455 is quite a bit lighter. We used one in the Roadmaster Project MGB and the front weight is quite managable for that chassis.
I think you'll find that the easiest way around the front suspension and steering problems in the Alpine chassis might well be a swap to another front suspension all together. The Alpine didn't use a rack and pinion so the steering linkage is a problem with most swaps. Even the factory had to go to a rack and pinion to put in the Ford V8 in the Tiger. I'd check and see if the front crossmember and suspension from an MGB would fit ok. Well developed with a good rack and pinion as well as several types of big front brake kits available as well as multiple spring rates both stock and competition. The turbo 400 is a big trans, that's going to cause some cutting on the floor and tunnel to fit it in. Be careful and don't reduce your foot room too much and make the car uncomfortable to drive.
You're definitely going to need a stronger rear axle, might as well get the one from that Olds while you're at it, should be either a big 10 bolt or a 12 bolt, either will do quite well after narrowing.

Bill, Thank you! Your positive outlook is excellent!

I AM dead set on this olds engine. I have an overwhelming sentimental attachment to this particular powertrain. As a promise to my mentor, I want to use as much as one can out of this Land Yacht. His mother bought it new and gave it to him. Now, he's passed it on to me, but the California Coast weather has swiss cheesed the body. So? Big heavy engine + little sportster + aspirin + welding rod = The REAL Rocket.

When I saw the alpine today, other than falling in love, I did notice that the steering was going to be an issue. I fancy the idea of a switch over. I am beginning the research on potential swap components.

The transmission.... yikes. I didn't take that into consideration. It's fairly cramped in there already. My body type is similar to that of a 200 lb pear. I stand only 5'4" on good day with combat boots on. I want to shy away from the idea of driving this car feeling like 200 lbs stuffed into a 10 gallon fish bowl. Perhaps a GM 4 spd?

List so far:
-Re-enforce frame and body connections
-Front Suspension swap and rack and pinion, ( MG ? Possibly )
-Four link type rear suspension? Mini Tubs?
-Remove olds rear end, shorten ( down the road )
-Transmission?

[www.hotrod.com]

Check out this car, the guy shoehorned a 427 Ford into a Sunbeam tiger. I can't say for sure but I think a 427 Ford engine might be close in weight to your Olds engine. I bet this guy had to build a complete sub-frame for this engine, I think you will have to do the same in order to keep the engine from twisting the car into a peice of unusable junk.
You do need to look into putting a standard tranny on this engine. I have no idea of what bell housing would work with this engine, I think you will have to do a lot of research.
Another option for your front end is to look into the Mustang II front end kits that come out of the hotrod shops. I think I have seen this done on other Alpines that are being turned into Tiger clones. Check out Heidts (heidts.com) they have a Mustang II suspension package that you could narrow by shortening the crossmember and adapting an MG rack and pinion. To me the one with adjustable coil over shock would be the best so you can dial in the suspension for your monster engine.

Hey John,

Cool project! Go big or go home.

On a car this light you can get away with a 350 automatic just fine.
Might give you some more "Hip" room.
Might even want a proper frame to go with your new front end.
It would give you some more design latitude.
These cars were, to be kind, flexible.
And when you start cutting it up it doesn't get better.
Mine used to shove the hard top out of its mounts with some spirited driving.
I haven't seen an Alpine on the street for years so pretty excited to see what you do with yours.
You've entered the playground of some very talented people here.
All of whom are eager to share their expertise.
Share your progress and ask questions.
They will guide you well.

Cheers
Fred

Byron and Fred,

Thank you for your thoughts! I have been very blessed with the immediate support and knowledge this forum provides.
When I undertook a Ford F.I. 302HO / 5 spd into a first generation RX-7 I participated in several forums that really didn't provide me the feeling of hopeful optimism that this collection of enthusiasts do. For the record, the RX-7 was completed and CA legal. Fast, but not exactly what I wanted. The Japan / American combination put me into an import crowd that wasn't my type.

That particular Hot Rod with Ford BB article was a big inspiration to attempt the Olds BB swap. I REALLY like the way it came out. Anything is possible!

I have been doing some looking and found some standard transmission GM produced from the late sixties into the early seventies that are suitable. The Olds bell-housing adapter is available from Summit Racing for an "OK" price. I am having a little difficulty locating an available standard transmission for trade or purchase. Ill keep looking. Now, the T350 trans seem to be everywhere down here. I bet I can even find a olds BB bell housing used, cheap. My preference would be to stay with the 400 but I am leery of the space issue now. :/

IF (a big IF ) I can afford a nice, new Mustang II "K" Member, brakes, coil overs ect... That would be perfect! In the mean time, I am going to start researching the suspension geometry and the design ideas. To see if, perhaps, I have the ability and materials to fabricate it. Just in case. Or buy a bare one? Add as I go? Brakes ect...

I recognized right away the talent in this Club. Thank you for welcoming me! I will post progress, and ask MANY questions.

Thank you, God Bless

John, I don't know what the budget is for this conversion, but if it's in the range then I'd consider a Fast Cars front suspension for your car. [www.britishv8.org] Ted is one of the sponsors for the British V8 Newsletter and I've seen his front end both on display and installed in a couple of cars. Really nice piece and has all the adjustment to work with almost any enigne you choose.

John, If your engine has (2) rabbit ears on top, for bell housing bolt pattern, then your in luck! That means 64'-up B.O.P. pattern(easy to get stick B.H.). Direct fit for all GM pattern 4-6 speed sticks. Aluminum heads and intake will save a LOT of weight, where most needed. Good Luck, roverman.

Art,

I think this maybe what your referring to? I have attached a picture. Boy, wouldn't I be in luck!
Thank you for helping me out, a VERY nice piece of info.

It has an aluminum manifold on it now. Aluminum heads would be a fabulous idea. I wonder how much weight I would save. I am afraid Ill have to get a new suspension up front anyway. At the moment, I believe the suspension holds priority over the heads, unless you have other thoughts? I just couldn't afford to do both.

I KNEW IT! This motor is in excellent shape! Don't be fooled by her appearance boys!

Look at these pics!

These should have been on the last post. I had to familiarize myself with the upload method. Is it poor form or inappropriate to use HTML links to post on this forum?

[sacramento.craigslist.org]

Here are some pics of the Alpine, what do you think? She just needs a loving touch. But it anyone gets the feeling its too far gone, or has insider info let me know.

It's hard to tell from the photos if the car is rusted too much, but really it shouldn't matter as you'll probalby build a new frame to replace most of the original box sections in the body anyway. The car will need that kind of strength for a 455. For the price a pretty good starting point I guess.

Are you planning on rebuilding the engine first? I remember when Jim put a 4 speed in his 70 Olds Cutlass, the 350 in it had no hole in the crankshaft for a pilot bushing. Apparently GM and Olds never planned for anything but automatic transmissions to go into some of there cars back then. You might want to check that out while you are deciding on what tranny to use.

Dan B

Dan, John and clan, "adaptor pilot bushing", might work. Basically a large od. bushing that press fits into where convertor snout went,(machined/concentric counterbore). Aluminum water pump and heads should save 75 lbs ? Should offer a performance advantage. Motor set-back ? What if existing frame was carefully gusseted/welded to body and cage ? Peep Olds webbsite for motor mods and weight comparisons ? Good Luck, roverman.

[www.442.com]

Check out this link for info on modifying your engine for a manual transmission. This website has a lot of info on other things you can do to your engine.
Have fun and do it right so you can enjoy the fruit of your labor. On Monday my garage will finally be insulated and heated so I can get back on my project. Enough of this vicarious stuff I want to get my hands dirty!!
Cheers
Byron

The crank will need to be drilled to do it right. Gives you a good excuse to check the bearings. The snout recess is not deep enough. It's possible to fudge it with tranny spacers but that's not a very good solution. If you can rig a way to weigh the engine please do that and let us know what you get. When we weighed the Buick 430 it came out 200 lbs heavier than the similarly equipped stock MGB engine. I don't recall the exact weights but they are posted in the MGB-Roadmaster thread in the MG section. Swapping to alloy heads and intake was good for a 100+ lb decrease, plus gave us more exhaust clearance. We used an engine hoist, a shop made balance beam and a spring scale for initial measurements and then confirmed accuracy by two other methods. Your engine may not be much heavier.

Check your front spring diameter and length. I have come up with an air bag coil replacement for the MGB that might work for you.

JB

Clan, from the webb, "engine weights", 455 olds=605lbs with alum int and accessories, no flywheel,exh. ?Note, earlier cranks are nodular iron, and therefore stronger. roverman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2010 09:19PM by roverman.