Engine and Transmission Tech

hey guys new here and i have some questions about building a olds 215. i know this project isn't for a mg but this seems to be the place for people building buick/olds V8's.
the goal i hoping to hit to build a 300hp motor that can go to 7000rpm but has a power band of 3000-5500 rpm.
the motor is going to be for a sand rail.
i guess my questions are can the valve train hold up at 7000rpm ( i don't plan on making power after 5500 but i want some cushion room for when this thing go air born)
can i even make the motor spin to 7000.
can i still use the 215 crank or do i need to do i need to use 300's crank to hold the power or provide the cubes needed.

You can spin it to 7K (better use forged pistons though, the stock cast ones break eventually) but getting 300 hp out of it, especially at 5500 rpm is going to be a real challenge. You might want to consider nitrous.

Jim

i was thinking about a using a diffrint trubo then to stock one, with 9:1 and water injection
put a super charger seems ot be the best bet for the sand,
i was thinking 8.5:1 with a water inter cooler in the manifold would work well for the super
or should i just do a 300 crank with the 10.25:1 heads i have.
i was planing on getting forged pistions after i read one of the members posts about him blowing up a set his 215.

i take it the stock 215 crank and rods will hold that power?!

on more thing if i pick up a set of buick 300 heads with the right rocket shafts (they have the larger intake ports right) would i have problems keeping the head gasket clamped with the lost of the 4 head bolts

The crank and rods will be fine. Stock Jetfire turbo is only good for maybe 6psi, 7 with custom headers and larger carb max. That'll only get you to about 200 hp. An Eaton M90 with a good intercooler can get you to 300 if everything else is right. A big turbo? Hard to say. How much boost you want to run? O-ring the deck and run copper head gaskets with the M90 or the big turbo or you might find some MLS head gaskets for it. Use studs, and make darned certain your head stud washers are thick enough. May want to helicoil all the threads.

The stock 300 wasn't that much over 200 hp and with the alloy heads was even less and 215 heads don't flow as much as that. I don't think you can get there N/A without spending serious cash. Even then I'd bet you'll be over 5500 easy.

Jim

Teddy, Welcome aboard. I have 2 Jet Fires(cars) and lotso motors. Based on my experiences, the only reason to use a Jfire motor would be in a restored car. You'll get much more bang per $ with a 4.0/4.6 Rover short block. Much stronger. I had a customer, running, unknowingly approx. 22lbs manifold pressure-waste gate jammed shut with Buick GN. turbo on basically stock 4L Rover. Cast pistons eventually heat eroded till ring seal was lost.Just use studs and Rover composite gaskets. Read all the post/threads in this forum. There are some savy people contribute here. Yes 300 heads flow more, but Rover heads cheeper and easier to get. With a blower you just won't needem. I suggest you consider E85 at comparative octane of 105 and $2.50/gal. Motor will run cooler and 15-20% more power."Peep" Performance E85 webb site. 15 lbs manifold should get you double hp. with equal air inlet temp. An oem/GN. turbo will be adequate and cheeper/easier to set-up than scratch building a super charger set-up.If you only need/want 5,500 rpm, Redline at say 6k with a "soft rev. limiter". Much cheeper than scattered parts. I suggest a "pm" to Jim Stabe(this forum). He used to run 12psi. with a basic stock Jet-/fire set-up,damn fast! I hope you have a strong t-axle to use. VW won't get-it. I'm using a "built",Vanagon/Audi Turbo auto. Pricey but pretty strong.Good Luck,roverman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2009 07:39PM by roverman.

i figured i have to run boost (which makes it that much more fun and cooler)

so just a run back

stock 215 crank and rods
copper head gasket with head studs (didnt know about hte head studs so that cool to know)
forged pistons
get port and polish on the heads

seem like the to get the power i want but still have to torque for sand and tires 9:1 at 12-14psi or isz that just asking for detionation. i play on running a water inter cooler
or can i run a high comp ratio and less boost and and still get 300hp
i was reading you build Mr. Blackwood. you still running the 10.25:1 right how much boost are you

i want to try and avoid using E-85 as it take twice the fuel, so i was thinking water injection, with a water inter cooler i could keep the temps down

the plan for this buggy i rather weird in design it configured like a rwd, front motor car. with me as little in front of a rear axle. the motor is designed to be placed right behind the front supestion. if my math is right it this configuration should give me a 60-40 balance. i plan on using a BW T-5 and a gm 12 bolt axle

Teddy, don't base your build on my motor, it's experimental and still being built. The intercooler has just morphed considerably and the details are not yet nailed down. The Blown 215 lived pretty long but it was also on the ragged edge and ate part of a ring land by the time we tore it down. Art is correct, better to start with the bigger Rover, you won't need as much boost. Building an intercooled roots setup is not for the beginner by any means, much machining, welding, and expense.

But, if you have the time, money, equipment and expertise to do it, a blown/intercooled/injected engine is very satisfying.

Jim

What you need is a biiiiig turbo from a truck. I am not an expert on this in any way, but I have seen how the guys at savarturbo.se build their engines, and some get +1000 hp out of 2.5 liter. They run with E85, a lot of boost (2.0 bar or more), Vems or MS, and a high powered N/A engine as a start. 300 hp is in easy reach with turbo... they get that with standard four cylinders that has 300km or 180k miles on them any time on the day....

jim im just trying to get an idea of what people have done and what this motor can hold. my first goal was 9:1 running 12 psi on a turbo. with water injection and an ac system modded to be a inter cooler.

I bet that setup will make good power. You could always run it till it breaks and then go with the larger Rover. It'd be interesting to see what happens. Then the only big expense is the forged pistons.

I'm with Jim and Art on the bottom end. The crank and rods are really pretty tough in stock form. The main caps are kinda @#$%& though. That's where the Rover block upgrade later will pay divs. You could probably just swap out the top end and turbo setup when it comes time then.

On the 7k: I hear what you're saying, you just want some room for when there isn't traction on the top end. To sorta spill over into an overrev condition. I think you'll be fine. Just for some cheap insurance though you could add some rocker shaft gussets. If something is going to break in the valve train it will be the shaft ends first. Here's a pic of some D&D rocker shaft gussets:



You can sorta see them in this pic. Sorry I don't have a better one. They are the aluminum blocks on each end of the rocker shafts. They keep the rocker shaft end from vibrating at higher RPM.

One thing Bjorn is on to is the larger turbos. They are actually a bit cheaper to run than the smaller stuff. You can run across them for sale a lot off of tractors and stuff.

Keep us posted on your build. It will be interesting to hear more about it.

The A/C based IC has seriously morphed. Freon is too light to carry off enough heat, which is why Ford added water to their system. I'm going to methanol and hope to get better performance than I did with the old heat-pipe IC. There's a whole order of magnitude between that and the heat load freon will carry. Bottom line, with straight freon, we don't have the technology. The heat pipe did a good job though. This time around I will document the results.

Using readily available parts, the GN turbo set up may be the quickest route to your goal.

Jim