mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Flanged liner options
|
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
Nic and all.Anyone sonic test their 4/4.6L after removing orig. sleeves? Their gonna get-wet first between companion cyls.
|
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
Jim, so the whole lifter package, "bolts-in"? Looks like Norstar pistons in a 2 valve? Deep Y block looks hungry for flat girdle. Modular motor take Norstar heads? I'm guessin 4.36" bore centers? Thanks, roverman.
|
mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Flanged liner options
|
NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: Flanged liner options
Do you have any idea what the weight is? The lifter package is bolt-in... Huh.
What is the bore spacing? How about those heads. Those are Quad-4 heads? Do the Caddy guys use those? What's the bore spacing on the Quad-4? |
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
Yeah thats great Jim, You didn't want to give ME any ideas. Now you got the "King" of tangients-Nic, all excited! roverman- one thought,one thought only.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2009 02:40PM by roverman. |
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
Jim,Nic and clan.Wikipedia says Northstar has 4" bore "centers",with forged crank 2003-up. Prob. same-o as Quad and Aurora and "maybe",4.9L-Jim?Those 4.9L liners look, too thin at the bottom, to be bored very far? Jim, You gonna flow bench a head?
|
|
mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Flanged liner options
Roverman, Those liners were already bored out .040 for Northstar pistons. Max for the stock liners. A shop in Tucson,AZ called Bud's Outback specializes boring the liners on an exchange basis. They also do Northstar work. Look in the Pennock's Fiero Archives on Will's Northstar build. A little too high tech for me. The 4.9 heads were notorious for small ports/low to midrange torque.Some people go to larger valves, but that just shrouds the valves. For a 3.62 bore motor,1.77 intake and 1.50 exhaust are pretty good. You might gain 25 HP by porting and gasket matching.
|
NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: Flanged liner options
Yup it looks like 100mm (3.938") bore centers. It's got to be a short engine. I've found one reference for 360lbs., says with flexplate and alternator. Not bad. I wonder what the overall dimensions are.
Jim, are those pix yours? Or do you have one of these laying around? Put a tape to it if you do. Let us know how long the block is and maybe block with waterpump. Deckheight? Width? How about width with the Quad4 heads. Cool. Just interested. I'm probably never going to attempt a build of one of these, I'm too heavily invested in the Rover/Buick I guess. That reminds me. I've got two bare blocks heading my way from Wilmington NC. I'll be making bore tests as soon as they get here. I figured I'd start with boring out the liners to 4" holes and see what it checks out at. That's another 100 thou larger than needed for the Westwood flanged repair liners for the 3.7" rovers. I'm guessing it's gonna be pretty thin if not breaking through. Don't know till you try though, right? Quote: So let's say it is thin. I wonder how thin is too thin? Would block filler help this? Then the other block will get the same treatment. I figure then I'll pick the worst one and hog it out the rest of the way and make some internal measurements. I'm hoping 4.25" will not be goo big so as to block off the water passages or impede flow. Anybody got a guess here? Then I'll start with some 4" experimentation along with Mike. These engines are fun to mess with. (dangling participle. Sorry it's regional ya know.) |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6508 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Flanged liner options
I got a dangling particle too but you don't see me going around bragging about it. That what you mean by regional?
Man, I can't believe how this cold weather slows me down. Anyway I know what you mean by invested in these engines. If I was to start over at this point I'd probably be with Pete and go towards the LS series engines. It seems like a good motor and also looks like pretty much everything we need is already there. Funny, I went with the 215 because of the light weight. Then I added the extra weight of a blower and an iron block. Up to now that hasn't bothered me but it does make you question your decisions from time to time. I still think it's going to be a great combination, and the same for the MGB-Roadmaster, but now that this new light weight chebby engine is becoming affordable it is probably time to reconsider engine choices for a new build. I just might know where there is a decent MGB for sale at a price I can afford.... who knows? So how much sense does it really make to go with the monster overbore on a BOPR block? Sure, it's building something unique, and we know bigger bores allow bigger valves and better breathing, but by my figgering it's going to take at a bare minimum something over a grand to do the job and probably a good bit more. Doesn't it make more sense to put that money into an aluminum block that already has a big bore? I'm not saying that has to be an LS, it just looks like that one might be leading the charge. Personally I'd dearly love to go out and buy an alloy BBB but I just don't have the money for it. It's got some really big bores though. Jim |
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options/dangling?
Maybe "Mike" will have dangling liners, but we don't have to, do we?? Maybe some of us are drawn to the -"Wild BOAR", simply to go where no fool has gone? I get get no special,"thrill" from re-tracing someone els's road. I want to make my own, right or wrong-Dammit. In leiu of "forcing", 4"+ bores without adequate head flow=bad idea.Initially, its looks more like romance than happy ending. I would appreciate a good lead on "EB" welding for my Stg II castings. Anybody? Thanks,roverman.
|
NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: Flanged liner options/dangling?
I'm totally with you, Jim. When I started the LS series engines were out of my price range. They are way more affordable now. It is a great platform. Well thought out and tough. Big bores too. It really doesn't make practical sense to do this. I just can't help myself. It's what I'm into I guess. I love the puzzle of it and the potential solution. Fun. It is sorta that "Everest" appeal. It's totally impractical.
We are trained at an early age here to drag out the vowels as long as possible and to dangle participles at the end of any sentence we can. LOL! Ya know. MN thing. That's what I mean by regional. |
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
I suppose I'm somewhat, passion driven with the BOAR. Otherwise I would just use well built"rotarys", right. Most space efficient,hp to weight.plentifull, yadayada.... Viva La Diff, roverman.
|
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options/? $
Melling # CSL 308 F, best price? I'm trying to "source", ACL brand, FSY3780-SF,(box) Aussie, I think it's actually "made" by "EC or EI,(Tsubaki),Japanese?,printed on sleeve, as retailed by Wildcat.
|
V8WEDG Robert Carter Fremont, CA (24 posts) Registered: 11/20/2009 06:03PM Main British Car: Poseidon Green '80 TR8 5spd conv, '05 Lotus Elise 6spd SC'd, '91 Volvo 240 wagon |
Re: Flanged liner options
Please excuse me if this is common knowledge, but in reading this thread it seems no one has mentioned it so I though I would.
According to "How to Power tune Rover V8s" by Des Hammill, a stock 3.9-4.6L block was bored to 3.880in/98.6mm to accept the liner and if perfectly cast stock, has a wall thickness of 0.120in/3.0mm. So it seems that complete elimination of the block cylinder walls would occur if the block was bored to 4.00"/101.6mm The book also gives the specs Wildcat Engineering uses for fitting 96mm bore dry tophat liners: Block bored to 3.8975in/98.947mm Liner OD = 3.900in/99.05mm Liner ID = 3.780in/96.0mm Block walll thickness with perfectly cast block = 0.1025in/2.653mm -Robert |
|
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options
Robert, "Tsubaki", they make good chain,and is the exact sleeve you describe. Melling is 3.9" bore, posibly to be potted, in Rover or 4.9L Cad.,(high strength cast alloy). Thanks, roverman.
|
NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: Flanged liner options
Thanks Robert. It's been a couple years since I read Des Hammill's book. Thanks for the post.
Welding in the 4.5" OD T6 tube is looking more and more necessary. I guess I'm gonna learn how to TIG weld. LOL! At least I got two blocks to practice on. |
mgb260 Jim Nichols Sequim,WA (2482 posts) Registered: 02/29/2008 08:29PM Main British Car: 1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8 |
Re: Flanged liner options
|
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: Flanged liner options/piano wire?
OK, wrap that sukka in piano wire,(330 ksi. tensile vs. 24 ksi. for sleeve), prior to insertion, and potting with "hardblock", now you got a strong sleeve,"if" you don't let it rust. If the flange od. is 4.24" or less, you can use the piano wire as a "thread form", and screw the sleeve into the block. Wait a minute,Tractor sleeve?... Nic are you lissnin? Isn't it pity that "only", 6 different configurations of,low cost,forged LS-1 pistons fit that "Nic" type sleeve ? roverman.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2010 09:02PM by roverman. |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6508 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: Flanged liner options
Braze the ends of that piano wire to the sleeve so it'll stay put.
Jim |