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BOOTLEG
Gary Rosema
Wisconsin
(47 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2013 07:26PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB Rover 3.5L

lock washers?
Posted by: BOOTLEG
Date: May 12, 2014 09:12AM

To assemble my new Edelbrock 2198 intake manifold to my old Rover 3.5L aluminum engine, I am using stainless hex head bolts and flat washers. Should I also use lock washers? If yes, what kind? Star, split or bellville? Also what kind of thread sealant is recommended?


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4577 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: Moderator
Date: May 12, 2014 10:46AM

I would NOT use any sort of lock washers.

I use more stainless steel fasteners than I used to, but I don't like their tendency to gall.

I wouldn't use thread sealant. Instead, I would generously apply anti-seize to the bolt threads.

IMHO, the intake manifold bolts should be tightened by hand, with a torque wrench, incrementally, in a pattern that evenly clamps the gasket and evenly stresses the intake manifold flanges. In my youth, I did this wrong and I cracked my Buick 215 4bbl intake manifold. (I had to have the crack repaired by a welder.)


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2464 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: lock washers?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: May 12, 2014 04:44PM

Cadillac 4.5/4.9 used conical washers and low torque because of iron heads and aluminum intake. The difference in expansion when hot is about twice as much for aluminum. Under 200 degrees it is about the same. What happens is the intake gasket compresses and then leaks when cooled down. The conical washers work kind of like springs. The 2.8/3.4 GM V6 guys or actually any iron head with aluminum intake that runs hot(emissions) should do the same or recheck the intake torque frequently to prevent intake gasket leaks.


BOOTLEG
Gary Rosema
Wisconsin
(47 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2013 07:26PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB Rover 3.5L

Re: lock washers?
Posted by: BOOTLEG
Date: May 12, 2014 06:08PM

Curtis,

Great insight and thanks for sharing the cracked intake experience from "your youth". So I'll stick with flat washers and my own 63 years of persistent youth. Then I'll find some anti-seize that likes both aluminum and stainless and use my torque wrench to sequentially tighten to the 28 foot pounds in the Rover spec.


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 13, 2014 10:35AM

Springs tend to go flat when subjected to high temperatures. If you've ever run lockwashers on the exhaust you've seen that. On the I-H SV engines I went as far as fitting long bolts, alternating flat and lock washers in a stack to create a finned radiator and followed with a high temperature heavy exhaust flange spring to maintain clamping pressure. It worked but the stack was about 2-1/2" long.

Rover has some very nice MLS exhaust gaskets made from stainless with a double beaded seal around the port. They cost about $40 each (x4) but the bead does not collapse and they are reusable indefinitely. This is the proper solution. However, they do not match the 300 port. I have found a solution, however it requires some trickery.

First is to find some steel or stainless wire of a proper size to re-form the bead around and make a box of the proper size to fit the port and seal properly. Welding the ends together and smoothing the joint is helpful. Next slip that inside the layers of the gasket and position it correctly. Then press the gasket between two rounds of hard plastic such as nylon with a hydraulic press to reshape the bead. Then if you feel it is necessary you can trim the inside edge to match the port. I didn't. This gives you a MLS stainless gasket to match the 300 port and should end your difficulties.

Jim


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4514 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 13, 2014 10:43AM

I thought we were bolting down an Intake manifold? ;)

I used these on my Camaro. Came with stainless washers. Add a dab of anti-seize & torque down by hand evenly in proper sequence. Y'all really use a torque wrench for 28 ft-lbs?

[www.amazon.com]


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6470 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: May 13, 2014 03:27PM

Wrong thread I guess.



MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4514 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 13, 2014 04:28PM

Good info. I hope you find where you meant to post it.


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1366 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: May 13, 2014 06:16PM

Yep,
I use a torque wrench for everything!
You get canned in my shop if you don't.


mgb260
Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA
(2464 posts)

Registered:
02/29/2008 08:29PM

Main British Car:
1973 MGB roadster 260 Ford V8

Re: lock washers?
Posted by: mgb260
Date: May 13, 2014 06:24PM

I confess,I even have a little one that reads in inch lbs! Stops me from breaking the smaller fasteners.


MGBV8
Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN
(4514 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 11:32PM

Main British Car:
1979 MGB Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: MGBV8
Date: May 14, 2014 08:12AM

Always wanted a smaller torque wrench for inch-lbs. Just torque by hand til I feel the stretch. :)


danmas
Dan Masters
Alcoa, Tennessee
(578 posts)

Registered:
10/28/2007 12:11AM

Main British Car:
1974 MGBGT Ford 302

authors avatar
Re: lock washers?
Posted by: danmas
Date: May 14, 2014 10:41AM

Impossible to use a torque wrench on the exhaust header bolts on my installation. Most of the bolts can only be accessed with an open end wrench. According to Sanderson Headers installation instructions, you pull on the wrench until your knuckles turn white - at that point you've reached the correct torque. My question is - is that my knuckles or "Bubba's" knuckles.

[www.sandersonheaders.com]


roverman
Art Gertz
Winchester, CA.
(3188 posts)

Registered:
04/24/2009 11:02AM

Main British Car:
74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L

Re: lock washers?
Posted by: roverman
Date: May 14, 2014 10:57AM

This is why the "crows' foot",is useful. Under Bubas redneck solutions: "I never use (inch/lbs),jus' grab the tork wrench 12" shorter". roverman.


BOOTLEG
Gary Rosema
Wisconsin
(47 posts)

Registered:
11/18/2013 07:26PM

Main British Car:
1978 MGB Rover 3.5L

Re: lock washers?
Posted by: BOOTLEG
Date: May 14, 2014 05:55PM

I find my own sense of torque alarmingly precise so I use my torque wrench only annually to calibrate myself.


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