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Todd McCreary
Todd McCreary

(207 posts)

Registered:
03/16/2012 10:57PM

Main British Car:


4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Todd McCreary
Date: January 28, 2015 11:40PM

Uhhhhh, say what?

*scratches head*

160hp and 180 lbft out of 210 pounds in a reciprocating torus arrangement? Okay, that may be interesting ...

[www.niamareisser.com]

[www.dieselpowermag.com]


One thing I would change from the animation is that I would rotate the arrangement 90* and then put both of the intakes on the bottom side and the exhausts on the top. This would help with keep intake charge temps down as well as using gravity to help get the exhaust pulse cleared more efficiently.

For a Coshocton Ohio company, Niama-Rieser sure does get into some bizarre concepts. Check out the ceramic pistons:
[www.niamareisser.com]


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 29, 2015 10:25AM

Bet they have some real fun machining that curved cylinder wall.

Jim


Moderator
Curtis Jacobson
Portland Oregon
(4576 posts)

Registered:
10/12/2007 02:16AM

Main British Car:
71 MGBGT, Buick 215

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Moderator
Date: January 29, 2015 12:40PM

Interesting stuff! I don't have an opinion about the CHB engine. However, I noted that if it isn't a commercial success, they can always fall back on the rapidly growing carbon-fiber bathtub market. Their bathtub is a bargain at just $13,000, whereas competitors are over-priced at ~$50,000. "Your bathroom should not only SMELL FRESH, but LOOK FRESH. Being modern is a WAY-of-LIFE!"


Todd McCreary
Todd McCreary

(207 posts)

Registered:
03/16/2012 10:57PM

Main British Car:


Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Todd McCreary
Date: January 29, 2015 02:52PM

Their bathtub is a bargain at just $13,000, whereas competitors are over-priced at ~$50,000. "Your bathroom should not only SMELL FRESH, but LOOK FRESH. Being modern is a WAY-of-LIFE!"


That is a critical marketing error; when you're selling to people who are Conspicuously Consuming, higher prices are a selling point. That's 99% of the reason why people by those stupid Monster speaker cables; "Charging more munnayh, gotta be better. You all aren't good enough to have speaker cables like mine!"


I was curious about those ceramic pistons. They claim they can be used for diesel engines, so I should think that they would be at least as durable as hypereutectics. I was wondering about relative weighting vs a standard alum piston ... they claim 15% less mass, no metal cylinder rings and much tighter tolerances?


Charles
Charles Long
McDonald, TN
(177 posts)

Registered:
09/15/2013 08:54AM

Main British Car:
1966 MGB V6 1994 Camaro 3.4L 60V6

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Charles
Date: January 29, 2015 08:50PM

The starting and stoping of any piston, regardless of what you call it , is wasted energy. Just my thought.

If they are selling to the crowd from Barret-Jackson it does not need to be the best, just cost the most and be on TV.

charles


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1365 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: January 30, 2015 03:26AM

Right there with you guy's.
A very smart man once taught me, if you want to make money, go after the people that have it. They will buy anything.
That engine design has been around in one form or another since the 1800's
It gets re marketed every few years and a whole new round of investors get sucked in.
The internal combustion engine, no matter how it transmits it's energy, is only minimally efficient. So we need to move on and come up with a better concept. I don't know what that is. But foremost it needs to be convenient. Or the public just won't use it. A perfect example is electric vehicles. They are perceived as the wave of the future and ultra clean. The general public won't use them due to the time and effort required to charge them vs the time involved to refuel a gasoline vehicle. The"green aspect" is misleading as well, the power has to come from somewhere. That's generally a coal fired power plant. So you just pollute by proxy. The batteries and aluminum are an environmental hit as well, A diesel VW will pollute less, from concept to extinction. Than any so called clean vehicle. Buying a new fuel efficient vehicle isn't the answer either. We "hot rodders" et.al. are actually the more environmentally friendly group. The dirtiest time of a vehicles lifespan is when it's made.It will never pollute that much again. So our cars have already paid their environmental penalty. Upgrading to a newer vehicle just makes it worse . So where do we go from here? A cleaner energy source isn't really needed, but a more efficient conversion mechanism certainly is.
Uh oh. I've overstayed my welcome. And my Scotchy scotch is getting stale.

Live like you mean it.
Fred


Scott68B
Scott Costanzo
Columbus, Ohio
(561 posts)

Registered:
10/25/2007 11:30AM

Main British Car:
1968 MGB GM 5.3 LS4 V8

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Scott68B
Date: January 30, 2015 08:03AM

On a completely unrelated note, Fred, after all these years (I can be quite dense at times) I finally figured out what your forum handle means...funny. :)



Todd McCreary
Todd McCreary

(207 posts)

Registered:
03/16/2012 10:57PM

Main British Car:


Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Todd McCreary
Date: January 30, 2015 10:12AM

Bet they have some real fun machining that curved cylinder wall.


Why wouldn't you just chuck it up in a jig on a lathe? I'd turn an entire circular piece to tolerances, then section the casting as needed.
[ /totally not a machinist ]




That engine design has been around in one form or another since the 1800's

Can you provide a link? Reisser claims to have dozens of patents ... which doesn't necessarily mean much.

I know that all that sliding happening in the crank yoke makes me leery.





The starting and stoping of any piston, regardless of what you call it , is wasted energy. Just my thought.

That's actually the point of this design. The kinetic energy needed to 'stop' the opening pair of pistons at 'BDC' is being provided by the opposing pair of pistons as they reach max compression at TDC.

In a way, they are utilizing the max high cylinder pressures that occur at poor leverage angles ( +0 to 10* TDC ) between the rod and crank to do something useful.

RPM is constrained by how fast you can get the air charge into the cylinder, but then, this is a diesel so that's not really a big issue anyways.

Given that 160hp / 180 tq, I would expect that redline is ~6000 or less.



The general public won't use them due to the time and effort required to charge them vs the time involved to refuel a gasoline vehicle.


Hot swappable battery packs is the answer to that problem. I was saying that ~20 years ago, I think I heard one of the major car manufacturers is finally going to start trying to roll one of those systems out in 2015/16.

The major problem with this idea being, of course, the huge outlays needed to build out the infrastructure ( recharging stations ) and battery inventories necessary to be useful to the public.



The batteries ... are an environmental hit as well

Oh man, are they ever. They're already at an 'environmental deficit' simply from the manufacturing side. Then they have to dispose of these exotic batteries at End-Of-Life. But it does allow Green Weenies to mince about pretending that they're better than everybody else.

Sigh.

[www.youtube.com]


DiDueColpi
Fred Key
West coast - Canada
(1365 posts)

Registered:
05/14/2010 03:06AM

Main British Car:
I really thought that I'd be an action figure by now!

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: DiDueColpi
Date: January 30, 2015 01:21PM

Thanks Scott, It gives me a chuckle every time some one figures it out.

Check out "opposed piston engines" in Wikipedia Todd. There have been quite a variety of them over the years. Some were commercially viable, some not so much. The big issue is the" two stroke" cycle that is required with this layout. It's an inherently dirty process that produces sky high exhaust temps that are difficult to deal with. Mazda has come up with a lot of fixes for that with their rotary engines. But it's still an ordeal to make them run cleanly.
At the end of the day the public is lazy, and will pay a premium for whatever is the most convenient source of transportation.

Live like you mean it
Fred


BlownMGB-V8
Jim Blackwood
9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042
(6468 posts)

Registered:
10/23/2007 12:59PM

Main British Car:
1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS

authors avatar
Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: BlownMGB-V8
Date: January 30, 2015 04:03PM

This is a drinking reference?

Jim


Todd McCreary
Todd McCreary

(207 posts)

Registered:
03/16/2012 10:57PM

Main British Car:


Re: 4 pistons, 2 cylinders, 1 cycle combustion
Posted by: Todd McCreary
Date: January 30, 2015 05:46PM

It's an inherently dirty process

Mostly due to the difficulty gasoline 2 strokes have in keeping portions of the intake charge from leaving the cylinder with the exhaust pulse. Another problem with 'normal' 2 strokes is that they are free induction. Reisser solves this with air compressed via turbo / super charger.

Reisser is claiming better combustion and lower emissions by using direct injection diesel ( no fuel introduced until the very top of TDC, means no fuel leaving with the exh pulse ).

Which, yes, I know, claiming is easy, demonstrating can be hard. Especially when it's Engineering that has to walk Marketing's talk. All of Dilbert is structured around that premise.

I'd rather have seen more "working demo models" and less marketing presentation goobledygook ( technical term ).

But, it was in my Diesel Power magazine. So I figure if they're going to inflict it on me, I should inflict it on you.



Check out "opposed piston engines" in Wikipedia

I did. The basic 'opposed piston' concept is there, but nothing seems to be directly applicable to the reciprocating toroid being discussed here. Most of them are just trying to kludge a normal, linear piston motion to the crank via some sort of clumsy levered rods arrangement.

[en.wikipedia.org]


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