Engine and Transmission Tech

New to this forum but a long time Olds builder. I put a 215 into a Vega sedan delivery about 30 years ago using the D&D kit. My current project is a recently acquired 1962 F-85 Deluxe wagon. The car desperately needs a 4.6 and T5 trans, but I really want to keep the Olds appearance, which means retaining the Olds heads and valve covers. I started a firestorm on the 215V8 Yahoo board when I asked the question about using Olds heads on a 4.6 block. This forum seems to be considerably more willing to fabricate parts and make them work (907 heads on a Rover block!?).

Based on that, I'll ask the question here. Has anyone ever installed Olds heads on a Rover block? I know the pistons will need to be carefully selected to yield the right CR. I know the sixth bolt around the cylinder holds the Olds rocker arm shafts and that I will need to plug and tap these bolt holes to bolt the shafts on. I know the Olds heads don't flow as well as Buick 300 heads but I'm hoping porting will get them close. I know people have cut and pasted valve covers to make the engine look like something else, but I am not interested in "fauxsmobile" valve covers.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this project, particularly any reasons why it won't work. Note that the car will be a cruiser, not a drag racer, so I'm not looking for 10/10ths performance. Thanks in advance.

There's still a Yahoo board? How very quaint!

This sounds like a nice project to me, and it also sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on what's required.

You could also sell your surplus Rover heads to help cover your costs, and they'll provide a nice bolt-on performance boost for someone's 3.5 or 3.9.

Go for it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 01:24PM by Moderator.

Joe,

If youv'e got all the valve gear for the Old's heads I see no reson why you shouln't use them I seem to remember the olds heads have 37cc chambers in which case a set of 4.0 HC witjh13cc.dish Rover pistons and should yield a static comp ratio of around 10.35/1 and that with the composite gaskets.

The 4.6 engine really does need a pair of decent big valve heads with 1.63" IN. and 1.4" Ex.valves and the throats opened up to valve seat size and blended into the bowls, that and a decent road cam will get you 250+ BHP with good drivability, a Crower 50232 would possibly be a good choice on the long stroke 4.6 and still retain good bottom end grunt.

Kevin.

"The 4.6 engine really does need a pair of decent big valve heads with 1.63" IN. and 1.4" Ex.valves and the throats opened up to valve seat size and blended into the bowls, that and a decent road cam will get you 250+ BHP with good drivability, a Crower 50232 would possibly be a good choice on the long stroke 4.6 and still retain good bottom end grunt.

Kevin."

Thanks, good info. Any idea of the largest size valves that the Olds head can accommodate? Are the valve centerlines in the same places on the Olds, 300, and Rover heads?

Joe, Not to sway your decision, but decades ago, I cut-down Olds valve covers to fit the 300 heads, for "stealth". All 215-340 Buick, Olds and Rover, except 350 Bu. are 1.660" valve centerlines. I'm told, never measured, Olds valves are closer to bore centelines. As you may know, Olds had, a least (3) different chamber sizes,( 1 semi hemi/Bu. like), not counting,"Indy".I never cut an Olds head up, for potential of largest seats possible? If you use Olds heads, open-up the chambers for larger valves and 3.7" bores ? You "may" be able to install, Time Serts in 7/16" thread, for rocker stands. Hyd. roller ? Jet- Fire Wagon? I have (2), 62' Jet Fires and 2, 61's. PM? Good Luck, roverman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 07:04PM by roverman.

Joe,

As Art says the Olds heads have the valves closer to the bore centreline which removes the problem of the valves getting close to the cylinder walls when fitting big valves especially with the smaller 215 bore, not so critical with the 94mm. bore of the 4.6 but still useful.

The standard rover heads will take having their existing seats recut to take the valve sizes I specified, which is a standard upgrade for stage 3 heads. you will need to check what the Olds seats can be recut to( D&D ?) but I suspect they will be ok, I had no problem with my Buick 300 heads fitting those valves.

As mentioned it is essential to cut the internal diameter of the inserts to actual seat size and blend into the bowls otherwise you have wasted the money you have spent on the big valves, I would also shorten the valve guides in the port roof and just clean up the port runners, this will ensure good gas speed is maintained for street use but the engine will be much free-er reving and should produce an additional 30+BHP, and with the Crower 50232 cam you could expect an additional 20 +of usable BHP.

You will need to check which version of the Old heads you have, D&D list the various types on their web site, Aluminium V8

Pic.of Olds head, not sure what size the valves are


Kevin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 07:45PM by castlesid.

Why not stroke the Olds engine?
Install a Buick 300 crank. 3.4 inch stroke.
With a .030 overbore 266 CID.

"Why not stroke the Olds engine?
Install a Buick 300 crank. 3.4 inch stroke.
With a .030 overbore 266 CID."

Well, for starters, the 4.6 is already 278 cu in and has cross-bolted mains. Here in Northern VA, these engines are plentiful since a lot of 10-12 year old Rovers are being junked. Besides, when I put the 300 crank into the stock 4.6 block, I get 292 cu in. ;-)

Yes, I know the Olds heads require significant porting work to support this.

There were actually some builders who felt the flow capabilities of the Olds head was comparable to that of the Buick.

JB

I'm at a loss why anyone would want a 300 crank ? One can re-grind a 4.6L to same stroke, 1 pc. rear seal, stronger and use a crank driven oil pump.Tell me it's not a nostalgia thing ? I doubt, "anyone" can port the 215 Olds and get it to flow with the Bu. 300, with-out welding. roverman.

[cgi.ebay.com]

Check this out, it appears the Olds heads will support some decent flow, 8's on injected alky is very impressive.

Alan

Alan, Thank You ! I met with Bud Moorehouse back in 76' ? He had the engine for sale ? Curtis Jacobson, may we "please" get a (how it was done), before this aluminum V8 historical treasure is lost again ? Bud had told me the car was first ever to go 170 mph on alky and first to 200 on fuel ? First to use bicycle wheels on front,(stronger spokes). This all happened, in the "magical" 60's, when creativity was rewarded, not stymied by the corporate giants of politics, who now rule the racing world.There was NO minimum weight back then, which made all of this potential possible. You purveyors of, "Detroit Wonder Metal",(cast iron), eat your heart-out ! roverman.

Yeah, can't you just imagine doing 200 mph in that buggey? I tell ya, them guys had nerves of steel!

JB

Ahem, Nerves of aluminum. Steel too heavy ! At 720 lbs with fuel and driver, I'm thinkin, "Underdog",was "spankin" much more powerfull cars, with big-nasty Blowers onnum, and would tend to be more managable on the track, compared to to it's competitors ? I suspect the early hemi cars ,weighed close to double ? I never piloted such a beast. Just a WAG. roverman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 05:31PM by roverman.

God that's Gorgeous!

Anyone in need of a left "nut", I might have one for sale?

Tony, I'm thinkin your "voice" isn't any higher, cause our, Dream Machine, sold to a "collector" in Wis. S'posed to be displayed at Bowlen Green-future date. I got a Lenco and a motor. Chassis anyone? Preferably (3) wheel murdersycle, (no min. weight).roverman

Joe, Speaking of six head bolts per bore,looks like "maybe", Merlin F85 head mite drill and stay dry . I haven't asked Real Steel yet. My Stg II V6 definately will. They'll need a deep, EB weld, in the middle. roverman.

Maybe the F85 ties in as the Merlin's claim to have valves closer to the centerline and the F85 was available with a 215 engine. Could be the Real Steel patterns are based on the Oldsmobile design.

Alan

I missed you guys. Fun thread. I can see without me contributing the thread stays very on point! LOL. Seriously, sorry about the ADD.

See Nic' ? Jus' like your sayin... now you wanna talk about your add ? What add-you have an add? Let's see it. You blowin-out 3.9" bore Rovers with Tractor sleeves/strokes? LOL. Wellcome-bak, roverman.