WedgeWorks1 Mike Perkins Ellicott City, Maryland (460 posts) Registered: 07/06/2008 08:07AM Main British Car: 1980 Triumph TR8 3.5 Litre Rover V8 |
British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Hi All-
I have been building up a collection of Works TR7V8 Rally parts that are all period correct. I got a few intakes, all period correct but this one is interesting! It is a Huffaker 4 barrel intake with a British Leyland swirl logo cast into it! Typically it would be a round boss and thats it. The famous Huffaker "H" is on the other side of the manifold. In addition is have a power brake booster take off and the coolant hose fittings front and rear. Has anyone else seen another of these BL intakes or have any knowledge of this odd-ball? Side With BL Swirl Both Huffaker "H" & BL Swirl -Michael |
Dan Jones Dan Jones St. Louis, Missouri (280 posts) Registered: 07/21/2008 03:32PM Main British Car: 1980 Triumph TR8 3.5L Rover V8 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
> It is a Huffaker 4 barrel intake with a British Leyland swirl logo cast
> into it! Typically it would be a round boss and thats it. The famous > Huffaker "H" is on the other side of the manifold. In addition is have > a power brake booster take off and the coolant hose fittings front and > rear. Has anyone else seen another of these BL intakes or have any > knowledge of this odd-ball? I've got one of those. Given the fact the Huffaker ports are perfect match for a 1964 Buick 300 aluminum head, I wonder if the Rover racers running the Huffaker intake were also running Buick 300 heads. I spent some time evaluating a couple of single plane intakes on Dave McLain's flow bench in Cuba, Missouri. The two intakes tested were a Huffaker: [www.bacomatic.org] [www.bacomatic.org] [www.bacomatic.org] and a Willpower: [www.bacomatic.org] [www.bacomatic.org] Note the Willpower intake pictured is not the actual intake tested. I've not yet taken pitures of the intake we tested but it differs from the one pictured in that it has EFI injectors bungs in each port but the injectors were not installed for these tests. The Huffaker has larger ports which better match the Buick 300 heads: [www.bacomatic.org] The Willpower has smaller Rover-sized ports but has a better radius on the end runners than the Huffaker. An end port and a center port of the head were first flowed without an intake attached to get a baseline, then flowed with the intake bolted in place. Also, a Holley 780 carb body with the throttle plates at full open was bolted to the intake to represent the pressure drop across a carb or fuel injection throttle body. I'll be using an EFI throttle body later but have not purchased it yet. When the heads were ported, they were tested on a Superflow bench at a 28" H2O pressure drop. The head had a clayed intake radius but no exhaust pipe stub was used on the exhaust. Those numbers are shown in the 2nd and 3rd columns. The 4th and 5th columns are the same head flowed on Dave's bench which has a 10" H2O pressure drop. The numbers were converted mathematically to 28" to be on a consistent basis. Note the numbers are somewhat lower than those of the 28" bench. We're not sure if this due in part to the conversion or is simply bench-to-bench variation. In any case, it doesn't influence the results of the intake manifold tests. On both single plane intakes, the center runners are short and straight while the end runners are long and curved, so one center port and one end port were tested. The Huffaker was bolted to the head and tested first, followed by the Willpower. The results are shown below and are best viewed in a non-proportional font like courier: Valve Buick 300 Ported Buick 300 Same head with Same head with Lift 1964 head on McLain's Huffaker intake Willpower intake (inch) aluminum flow bench center runner center runner ported 10" numbers Int Exh converted to 28" CFM % of CFM % of 1.775" 1.5" Int Exh bare bare 1.775" 1.5" head head Int Exh center port 0.050 -- -- 26.3 22.6 26.1 99.2 27.6 104.9 0.100 66 47 56.3 51.6 55.1 97.9 56.4 100.2 0.150 99 82 86.8 75.0 87.8 101.1 89.0 102.5 0.200 129 104 115.1 98.4 117.2 101.8 119.1 103.5 0.250 155 119 140.4 114.1 141.4 100.7 142.8 101.7 0.300 174 130 158.1 125.4 160.6 101.5 160.0 101.2 0.350 187 139 171.7 134.4 169.9 98.9 167.9 98.0 0.400 191 146 179.8 140.2 170.5 94.8 172.2 95.8 0.450 194 150 181.3 143.2 172.6 95.2 174.3 96.1 0.500 196 152 182.1 144.3 173.9 95.5 175.3 96.2 Valve Buick 300 Ported Buick 300 Same head with Same head with Lift 1964 head on McLain's Huffaker intake Willpower intake (inch) aluminum flow bench end runner end runner ported 10" numbers Int Exh converted to 28" CFM % of CFM % of 1.775" 1.5" 1.775" 1.5" bare bare end head head port 0.050 -- -- 25.5 22.6 26.8 105.9 26.9 105.5 0.100 66 47 55.0 51.6 56.6 102.9 55.4 100.7 0.150 99 82 87.0 75.0 88.2 101.4 88.6 101.8 0.200 129 104 116.9 98.4 114.1 97.6 119.8 102.5 0.250 155 119 143.4 114.1 132.5 92.4 144.6 100.8 0.300 174 130 157.8 125.4 146.5 92.8 164.8 104.4 0.350 187 139 171.6 134.4 155.6 90.7 173.3 101.0 0.400 191 146 178.3 140.2 156.9 88.0 175.0 98.1 0.450 194 150 180.8 143.2 156.6 86.6 176.0 97.3 0.500 196 152 182.9 144.3 157.6 86.2 175.3 95.8 Despite the smaller runners, the Willpower is the better flowing manifold. The center ports on both intakes are quite close to the head flow but the Huffaker end ports are not as good. I think it would be worthwhile to port just the ends of the Huffaker intake end runners with a better radius to see if the flow loss could be recovered. There's a slight drop off in flow as lift increases on the Willpower intake that may be due to the small port size. The Willpower could be ported to a larger size but given how close the intake is to the bare head flow, it's probably not worth the trouble. The worst flows are at 96%. As a point of comparison, we've recently flow tested a couple of (non-Rover) dual plane intake manifolds and they were in the mid 70% flow range (unported). Dan Jones |
hoffbug Tony Hoffer Minnesota (323 posts) Registered: 10/15/2007 05:25PM Main British Car: Olds 215 EFI |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Great stuff Dan..
Im in the proce$$ of ordering a Willpower... But would like to know what the specs are for the cross sectional areas, runner lengths, and plenum area for 1. The Harcourt. 2. The Huffaker. 3. The Willpower At some point Id like to try my hand at fabricating a sheetmetal intake. |
NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Cool, Tony! Out of aluminum?
Dan, I wish you were more specific and wrote more in your posts. LOL! Seriously thanks for you dedication, Man. It's great. |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6470 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Dan, that's really good info.
Things are moving right along on the larger displacement Buick small blocks, in a year or so we can hope to have a new TA Rover style head, but so far no plans for an intake for them. That may change suddenly if the 350 boys start snatching up the new heads (would mean using the early cam, intake and exhaust layout) since the 340 stuff would bolt up. Might be worth looking to see what intakes might support a 340 or 350 with the new heads, possibly with spacer plates. Jim |
Dan Jones Dan Jones St. Louis, Missouri (280 posts) Registered: 07/21/2008 03:32PM Main British Car: 1980 Triumph TR8 3.5L Rover V8 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
> But would like to know what the specs are for the cross sectional areas,
> runner lengths, and plenum area for > 1. The Harcourt. > 2. The Huffaker. > 3. The Willpower Huffaker: port dimensions 1 3/4" tall x 1" wide short runners = (2 + 3 3/8)/2 = 2.6875 inches long runners = (3 3/4 + 5)/2 = 4.375 inches average runners = 3.53 inches Willpower: port dimensions 1.63" tall x 0.966" wide I don't have anything for the Harcourt. > Things are moving right along on the larger displacement Buick small blocks, > in a year or so we can hope to have a new TA Rover style head, but so far no > plans for an intake for them. I wasn't aware of a TA Rover style head. What are the details (valve sizes, chamber volume, port locations, rocker arm style, flow goal, etc.)? I saw they are working on hydraulic roller cams for the 350. HR cams for the 215/300/340 would be nice. > Dan, I wish you were more specific and wrote more in your posts. LOL! > Seriously thanks for you dedication, Man. It's great. You're welcome. Dan Jones |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6470 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
The TA heads will be the same design as their current V6 heads. Mike told me they would just cut 1 chamber off two V6 molds, glue them together, and they would have it so it would be quick and easy to develop, unlike designing a 350 head. The V6 heads have now produced 1700 hp in twin turbo racing configuration according to Mike. Here are some specs from their catalog:
"V6 Stage 1 SE Aluminum Cylinder Heads - ASSEMBLED Product ID: TA_V3850_SE-A V6 Stage 1 SE Aluminum Cylinder Heads - ASSEMBLED Details TA’s V6 Stage 1 Street Eliminator (SE) series head is our high performance head. Versions of this head with heavy porting have made 1500 hp on a 274 inch twin turbo application. Use this head for serious street/strip and race applications where the most power potential is desired. Intake Manifold: TA, Stock, BGC Port Matched Exhaust Manifold/Headers: Stock Rocker Assembly: TA V1308 Series Head Stud Kit: TA 1133A (8 bolt) TA 1133B (14 bolt) Power Potential: Will support up to 1500 HP Valves Int./Exh: 1.940 / 1.600 CFM (base) Int./Exh: 213 / 178 .500” Lift CFM (max) Int./Exh: 270 / 187 @ .550” Lift - 275 / 200 @ .650” Lift (Fully Ported) Chamber CC’s: 46, 55 Runner CC’s Int/Exh: 163/ 73 ~For Special Order Requests, Please Call~ Price: $1,799.95 " They will start working on them as soon as they have finished the aluminum 455 block, which is now at the foundry. This block, which will list for $5900 and will support larger bore and stroke and has replaceable liners should be available in limited numbers before the end of the year. Anyone want a sub-400 lb big block? Jim |
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NixVegaGT Nicolas Wiederhold Minneapolis, MN (659 posts) Registered: 10/16/2007 05:30AM Main British Car: '73 Vega GT 4.9L Rover/Buick Stroker |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Quote: That is really hot. Penthouse forum for motorheads. Quote: Yes please. I love TA. |
Dan Jones Dan Jones St. Louis, Missouri (280 posts) Registered: 07/21/2008 03:32PM Main British Car: 1980 Triumph TR8 3.5L Rover V8 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Thanks for the info on the TA Rover heads, Jim. Looks like they'll
have to reduce the valve size to fit in the smaller Rover bores but they should still flow pretty well. So how close is a Buick 300 port (intake and exhaust) to a Buick V6? Dan Jones |
BlownMGB-V8 Jim Blackwood 9406 Gunpowder Rd., Florence, KY 41042 (6470 posts) Registered: 10/23/2007 12:59PM Main British Car: 1971 MGB Blown,Injected,Intercooled Buick 340/AA80E/JagIRS |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Don't really know Dan, the cast iron heads have much larger ports (stock) of course and the TA heads have big ports to start with. They're larger than the iron port heads without porting I think. I also think it might depend on what V6 you're comparing with. Also I'm not real sure whether the first V6 was derived from the '64 or '65 design and that would make a difference.
The 340 used the same heads as the 300 (same bore) and the distance outside-outside on valves in the '64 300 heads is 3.175". I'm sure TA has optimized valve size and placement in the V6 head and shrouding is likely to be an issue in the smaller bores, but I don't know if they'll have to change the valve sizes or not. Jim |
roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
For what its worth, I have a" Wildcat" 4bbl. coming from Ian to go against my massaged 340" heads. Still haven't heard of any flows specs, etc. on these heads. Cross-section of port is approx. 57% larger than Rover. Trying to make a 1.89" int. valve work. To be continued. Art.
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roverman Art Gertz Winchester, CA. (3188 posts) Registered: 04/24/2009 11:02AM Main British Car: 74' Jensen Healy, 79 Huff. GT 1, 74 MGB Lotus 907,2L |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Looks like a cast-in logo, behind the coolant outlet. What does it say ?
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rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
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rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
I cant be the only one with this inlet manifold?????
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Moderator Curtis Jacobson Portland Oregon (4577 posts) Registered: 10/12/2007 02:16AM Main British Car: 71 MGBGT, Buick 215 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
It's handsome looking.
I'm curious about why it appears to be missing bolt holes. Perhaps it really is a one-off or prototype. |
rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Yes its good looking manifold .
I have had it checked for cracks it came back clear. I got in contact with John Eales he seed The manifold is noy one I . |
rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
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rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
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rover sd1 v8 jay martin (11 posts) Registered: 09/06/2015 06:07AM Main British Car: sd1 1986 rover 3.9 |
Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
So its is one of a kind manifold
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