Engine and Transmission Tech

Just got a call from a friend of mine. He says there is a big write up in Hot Rod about building up oddball engines. They chose a Buick 300 and stuffed in a 350 crank. That's all I know till I go buy the mag. He's miffed because he just finished a 4.9 Rover stroker with 300 heads. Now he's left wondering if he could have installed a 350 crank instead of offset grinding the 4.6 crank. He did manage to get 1.77" and 1.50" valves with new seats into his 300 aluminum heads thou. If anybody wants to go down the hot rod route, I have a couple of 300 blocks taking up space in the basement.

Fully 2-1/2 decades ago a buddy was moving and tried to give me a 300 block and set of aluminum heads. I took the heads but passed up the block, I was absolutely convinced I didn't want an iron block in my MG. Today I would have snatched it up in a heartbeat. That's what experience can do for you.

JB

[www.hotrod.com]

"Nelson's solution: fabricate an adapter plate to support a Chevy stud-mounted adjustable valvetrain that oils through the pushrods

The custom rocker plates fit 215, 300, and 340 Buicks; Nelson plans to sell them to the public (contact Joe Sherman Racing)."

Oh yeah!

That's the way Tim Lanocha has been building his roller rocker set ups for 15 years now. Definitely sweet!

What are the specifics for a roller cam conversion and would they not be the same on a 215 block? I did an article search and could find details on this one. I know they are availble for a price, but how could I do one at less cost with crossover parts.
thanks

There was an old thread with using GM 3100,3400 V6 and 2.2 roller four lifters. They have been used succesfully in Buick V6 and SB Chev.Paul was trying to find a spider for hold down.

I contacted them i was told they were having trouble getting material and that everything around them in the industrial park they are in is closed or closeing. i sent Joe an email he told me he could also supply rocker arms, well after two weeks of well call me tommorrow which i did several times [ asked for more time] he kept telling me he was trying to save me some money, then he couldnt get the rockers then it was well i have 9 orders and no one has sent me any money yet! then it was i had ten made and the guy drilled a hole wrong on the tenth one and nine are sold. He really didnt know about the rover heads and some minor bolt and pushrod and hole clearance issues, no big deal asked me to measure and confirm i did . The point im making is it doesnt take a genius to put all the pieces together regarding my experience trying to order a set of his adapters, he will try to upsell then doesnt really know for sure what it is he is selling you My advice call one of the suppliers Woody cooper T&A performance Harland Sharp etc all of their products are proven and they have excellent customer support. ive bought from two of the 3 and have an order in with the third. The getleman that has been doing these for the past fifteen years should take affront to this as basically they are just copying something he has been doing for quite some time. OR MAYBE HE SHOULD BE FLATTERED! Lanocha Racing . im posting this as my experience and feel that i should share it with the forum/British V8 community so as to spare any of you from problems arising from dealing with the aforementioned i spent the time inquireing and believe me buy from an established vendor whom supports our community. My money goes where it is appreciated and deserved [The guys ive allready mentioned above] By the way this is the greatest forum ive ever been on when it comes to all around knowledge and good mannerisms cant say enough good things.

Yea I'm all for paying the bills, but one of my hobbys doesn't do that for me. some times you takes your chance in the big world out there. Little cash not too hard of a lesson, cost goes up so does the pain. Have found decent solution to roller rockers on 300 heads. If you would like details PM me. I totally support all of the vendors! when I have to.

> What are the specifics for a roller cam conversion and would they not be the
> same on a 215 block?

The Hot Rod article Buick 300 stroker used a flat tappet cam, not a roller cam.
The Rover, 215 and 300 blocks were not designed to accommodate taller roller
lifters. For hydraulic roller lifters, you don't want to expose the oil
hole (or band) on the lifter at maximum lift or it will bleed off oil pressure.
On some engines, you can use a reduced base circle cam to keep from exposing
the oil band. The 215 is already a pretty small base circle and reducing the
base circle can cause interference problems at the other end of the travel when
the lifter is on the base circle. There may be aftermarket lifters that have a
lower location of the oil band to permit the use of standard base circle cams.
The Crane retrofit link bar lifters I use in 351C Fords are that way and do not
require a spider retainer. Another way is to bore and bush the lifter bores to
make them taller. That's how the Scarab solid roller 215 strokers were done:

[www.bacomatic.org]
[www.bacomatic.org]
[www.bacomatic.org]

Woody Cooper uses Erson shrouded link bar hydraulic roller lifters but they are
expensive:

[www.thewedgeshopstore.com]

I don't think Erson has a suitable cam core available and has to make the cams in
their custom shop from round billets so that drives the cost.

> The gentleman that has been doing these for the past fifteen years should
> take affront to this as basically they are just copying something he has
> been doing for quite some time.

The modification didn't originate with Tim Lanocha. My 1962 GM Mickey Thompson
cylinder heads have the same roller rocker set up.

> Have found decent solution to roller rockers on 300 heads. If you would like
> details PM me.

We're going to need short spacers under the stands to accommodate the longer
Buick V6 Stage I valves. Geometry is fine with standard length valves and the
modified D&D end stands clear the Harland Sharp rockers. Also, the side-to-side
alignment looks good. Next we need to make some shaft spacers to replace the
springs which are way to tight on the wider roller rockers. I'll take some
pictures when I get the chance.

Dan Jones

Dan, Good info as always. I don't think you are aware of the small V6 lifters being shorter with lower oil band. Used successfully in Buick V6 [www.turbobuick.com] The Buick V6 uses stock 86-87 spider retrofit to older block.Chevy V8 uses newer V8 spider.Paul on this board was looking at splicing 2 V6 spiders or Ford 5.0. I suggested 4.9 Cadillac to look at. Haven't heard much about it from Paul lately. Appears the lifters would work, but expensive cam grind.You would need a cam button also. Some guys strengthen the lifters by installing LS springs and C clips instead of wire clips.Roverman(Art) made solid lifters with c clips with the V6 rollers. You would need longer pushrods. Chevy V8 [forums.corvetteforum.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2011 05:11PM by mgb260.

> I don't think you are aware of the small V6 lifters being shorter with lower
> oil band. Used successfully in Buick V6(TurboV6 site) and Chevy V8's on Corvette
> forum.

I recall there was some discussion a while back but I didn't keep up with it.
I'll review the info on those links when I get the chance. I wonder how good
RPM-wise the GM lifters are? I know the small block Ford OEM lifters aren't
as good for RPM as the Crane link bars. Might not be a problem with our small
valves and modest rocker ratios though (the 351C Ford's are 1.73:1 rocker ratio
with 2.19" diameter valves so are more of a challenge).

> Appears the lifters would work, but expensive cam grind.

I think I recall Roverman looking into cores.

> Some guys strengthen the lifters by installing LS springs and C clips instead
> of wire clip.

A quick 'net search shows Morel makes a Buick V-6 hydraulic roller lifter.
That may be the lifter that Woody's kit uses given that Erson/PBM use
Morel lifters in other applications.

> Paul on this board was looking at splicing 2 V6 spiders or Ford 5.0.

I've got spare Rover and Buick blocks and have a Ford 5.0L spider here.
I can check the fit.

Dan Jones

Yes, I had (10) "round lobe", blanks made. Paul bought (5). "Maybe" he'll sell some ? No one here, or on the V8 Buick board, got serious about this stuff. I'll let the dyno, sort it all out. Cheers, roverman.

Hey Art,

I was "very serious" about buying a cam. But no one was willing to sell one.
So I made my own.
Geoff has done a preliminary rough grind on it to make sure everything fits.
When I finish the heads we'll decide on a final profile.
Once I get far enough along to take some pictures I'll start a project journal on the engine.

Cheers
Fred

Fred, Would that be a roller for the small V6 lifters? Where's Paul on the spiders. If you are look at 4.9 Cadillac spiders. I gave Paul dimensions on an older thread. Or overlap 2 86-88 Buick V6 spiders.

Yep Jim,

Using the v6 roller lifters. Not using a spider to retain the dog bones. Made up retainers that register on the bottom of the heads.

Cheers
Fred

Hey guys. I was on a mission to hunt down some Buick 3.8 spiders to fit up to the Buick/Olds/Rover block. Life is what happens while you're making other plans and I'm now living and working in Sitka, Alaska at the moment. When the long hours slack off a bit, I'll look around here to see what they have in the way of Buick 3800 engines for parts, but it's a small town (pop. 9000) so it could take a bit of hunting.

And, yes, the lifters look like a winner. They can be had (NOS) on eBay. I'll see if I can find the name of the seller who sells them 12 at a time. Be warned that the seller gets easily confused if you attempt to purchase more than one set of lifters at a time.

I haven't seen any MGBs in Sitka.

Hey Paul, Good to hear from you again! I am curious if you had a chance to check the dimensions I gave you on the Caddy 4.9 spider? Fred, do you have a picture of your solution?

Not yet.

The heads are still away having bigger seats put in.
When I can I'll mock it all together and put the pictures in the journal.

Cheers
Fred

Hi Jim. I've been lurking and watching your thread about brake rotors and calipers. Nice work.

I do have pictures but they are on a computer in Boise. I'll double check the camera to see if any were left on there.